Thank god for Sam Adams

SA is always dependable and often times delicious. I loathe when people hate on them on the forums.

 

You mean good decision?

 

Err, yeah...is that what it was? Oops lol

 

Here, here.

SABL has saved me in many a restaurant and dive bar.

 

How is it not craft? Their main beer is definitely aimed at the masses, but it's still family owned and brews roughly the same amount as Boston Beer Company. I don't like most of their beers, but if it's a choice between Yuengling and BMC, then it's not much of a choice at all for me.

 

even their "craftier" offerings are pretty poor, but if we are talking about the base beer I would put it under some bmc even. It is corny fizz.

 

If quality of beer determines whether you're craft or not, then I know plenty of craft breweries that are now BMC. Boston Beer Co. for the abomination that is Triple Bock, Brouwerij Verhaeghe for Duchesse de Bourgogne, Brauerei Schloss Eggenberg for Samichlaus, and plenty of tiny breweries whose every beer I've had has been mediocre to bad. Plenty of craft breweries use corn or rice as adjuncts in some of their beers as well, and I don't see how those are automatically bad when rye, oatmeal, wheat, etc. are considered valid.

 

+1! That and SNPA always save the day

 

Craft, BMC. Who cares? If it's good, it's good.

And Sam Adams is great.

 

Thank God? Are you sure you're not talking about the Higgs Boson lager?

 

If you want to get technical about it and you go by the Brewers Association definition the flagship beer of the brewery must be either all malt or have adjuncts used to enhance rather than lighten the flavor.
http://www.brewersassociation.org/pages/business-tools/craft-brewing-statistics/craft-brewer-defined

 

I like Duchesse

 

Their flagship is adjunct laden, and not to "enhance flavor".

That is the step in the Brewers Association definition of craft that trips up Yuengling. Im still not sure how Shiner got approved though.

Bud was family owned until a few years ago and they werent considered craft then. Yuengling has never been considered craft, they are just the one old school regional brewery that somehow survived the beer wars.

 

SA Lager is always good, but I prefer their Boston Ale.

 

Well, along with Minhas (Huber), Schell, Straub, Cold Spring, Genesee, Matt, Stevens Point, The Lion and Spoetzl- granted, more than a few of them went through a number of ownership changes, flagship brand changes, dramatic loss of barrelage, etc.

Yuengling's uniqueness is probably better said to be that, unlike most of the above, they didn't just survive but thrived during the latter part of the Beer Wars era (including the addition of two multi-million barrel capacity breweries and greatly expanding its distribution area and total barrelage)

 

I grew up in Pa and Yuengling was considered similar to a lot of local brews like Reading, Gibbons, Iron City etc. We mainly drank Rolling Rock or Budweiser. They had Dick Yuengling on the radio here a few years ago, and their story is amazing, when they pushed into the NC market they came loaded. It's extremely popular and every place has it on tap, my dad's favorite brew. A little too much oaky influence for me in a lager style, but most definitely a commercial success.

 

After I posted that, I realized "the one" wasnt entirely accurate (read: not at all accurate), but I just hoped you werent reading this thread.

And of the ones you list, 3 are considered craft now, so I dont think they are still "old school" anymore. And Genessee got bought by NAB, so they didnt survive either (or was NAB and Genessee always the same company?).

For some reason I thought The Lion was contract only, but a search shows they do have some brands of their own. Ones Ive never heard of, but they do exist.

 

Thank God I live in Kalamazoo and can get Two Hearted nearly anywhere I go. Sam Adam and SNPA have certainly made a bad beer situation better many times when options are limited.

 

Well, they survived long enough to "evolve" into craft breweries, then? F.X. Matt still makes their former flagship the adjunct lager Utica Club (as well as some contract adjuncts). Spoetzl, as you point out, has a flagship that is a "traditional" US style adjunct beer given special dispensation by the B.A.

(Who's the other old school>craft? Point? Isn't their flagship still Point Special? I suppose 50% of their production is all-malt by now, tho'?)

Yeah, that's the problem with these sorts of discussions- what exactly is "surviving"? Yeah, Genesee is now owned and controlled by the parent NAB, but it's still a working brewing company - and, when created, Genesee was NAB's only brewery (despite their chosen name, North American Breweries - they've since picked up the IBU breweries [Magic Hat/Pyramid]).

If having been bought by a new owner or larger conglomerate disqualifies it, then, in theory, Miller itself didn't "survive" the Beer Wars era once they were bought by Philip Morris in the '70's (Pabst and Heileman also suffered from ownership changes in that period).

I suppose, to me, a brewing company still "exists", even when ownership changes, if it could still be spun-off as an independent working company. So, Pabst owned "dba's" like Stroh, Heileman and Lone Star don't "exist" anymore, since they're just words on a label. Of course, in theory, even the wholly-owned Leinenkugel could be spun-off and be "reborn" as an indie old line brewery once again. So, yeah, it's all in how one defines it.

The Lion (like a few others on that list like Cold Springs and Genesee, and not on the list, like City) does do a majority of it's business as contract brewers (and other types of beverage bottlers) but, yeah, they still brew a few of their own labels like Stegmaier and Lionshead, which tend to be very local in distribution (and apparently not easy to find even there). They were one of the earlier old line breweries to create their own "faux craft" line- first called "Brewery Hill" later "Pocono" - similar to Genesee's Dundee and Matt's Saranac. The Lion's attempts were not as successful as the those two, however. They're now trying to create a craft-line under the Stegmaier brand they acquired back in the '70's when they bought the brands of their much larger neighbor.