De Garde Domination

Marketing. We should call it by it's proper name, CascadiaWeizen.

 

@deGardebrewing brews great beer, don't get me wrong, but to see one brewery have 13 of the top 15 tells me a lot more about the ratings and the list than it does the brewery.

I'm not the most well versed in Berliner Weisse, but I have had enough different ones to know that de Garde does not make 8 of the top 10 in the world.

Again, not trying to take anything away from the brewery, which brews world class beer for sure, just taking away from the list.

 

Which others would you put in the top 10 of those you've had?

 

Well, the complete list of different Berliners I've had is probably a top 15 so like I said - not real versed in them.

I'd put New Glarus in my top 5 for sure though. 1809, Huckleberry Pucker, and Hottenroth were also great.

I guess even if I'd never had a single berliner weisse I'd still say any list with 13 of its top 15 from one brewery is a bogus list.

 

7venth Sun Wolfman's Berliner is fantastic. Wish I could get more of that one

 

The thing about the list that *may* make it not bogus ... is that it's almost as if it's one beer in many different guises. If you have an amazing base beer and you simply (I'm not a brewer so I have no idea how "simple" it really is) add different fruit, different barrel treatments, etc ... it may be realistic. It's pretty clear that no one else is really riffing on berliners with the frequency and dedication that De Garde is. I like the New Glarus, but I don't think they were making the attempt to elevate the style to greatness (yes, that may be an overblown way of putting it) like Trevor is with some variations. Imperial Hop Bu is a whole 'nother beast ... and a blackberry version aged in second use pappy and rye barrels? It really feels like he's playing a different game / changing the game and people are digging it.

I find the logic that the list is automatically flawed because 13 of 15 are from one brewery to be faulty. In running, something I'm familliar with, 8 of the top 10 10K times are by Ethiopians and 4 are by one man. Does that make the list wrong? Seems he and his compatriots are just really good at running fast. Double IPA is a MUCH more competitive category and HF has 3 of the top 10 - seems like they're really good at making Double IPAs.

Give the category time to fill out if the popularity continues. I bet more people start taking the style "seriously" and the DG stranglehold will loosen.

 

10 Barrel Cucumber Crush is definitely a top 10 Berliner for me.

If anything, I found Raspberry Crush to be the least exciting because it's one of the more common fruit flavors for beer.

 

Not defending or detracting from the argument of our reception/ratings (that's up to you guys as the consumer) but to clarify:
We do two different base Berliners; imperial Bu and Bu Weisse. In addition, we are not adverse to 'tweaking' the base. For example, imperial Hop Bu subs Vienna malt for the typical Pilsner part of the barley base. That's beyond the different fruit and barrel treatments.
We're flattered as hell that people seem to be digging on these as much as us. Thank you.

 

wow! I enjoy the beers and all but way too much hype. But hey it's nice to see an Oregon beer(s) rule the list for a while.

 

Well JWakefield may break some onto that list once his beers are allowed. I don't think anyone else out there stands with de Garde so the list makes sense.

And some of those are pretty good, but de Garde makes 10+ berliners better than any of those. And sure once you have a great berliner base it makes sense that you can pump out tons of amazing variations.

 

Not to take away from what @deGardebrewing is doing up in Oregon (and I can't speak to the "validity" of the top Berliner Weisse list since I haven't been lucky enough to have any of their beers)...

I think the Draft Magazine article and the creation of the term "Florida Weisse" is more about rapid proliferation across the state of this "new" style (or new take on the style). It's not that Florida is doing them (fruited berliner weisses) better than anyone else...its that Florida is doing it more than anyone else and the state's breweries and style are becoming synonymous with each other. Similar to how California was synonymous with IPAs early in the earlier days of the craft boom.

So many of Florida's breweries are offering their takes on this style, a style that was largely unheard of and ignored in the American craft beer scene up until recently. And it's not just that so many of the FL breweries are each doing a berliner weisse, it's that they are doing multiple. Peg's/Cycle (the creator of the "Florida Weisse" term) has done 14 different Florida Weisses, CCB has done 18, 7venth Sun and Funky Buddha have each done 17. And then there is Wakefield...a soon to open brewery created because of the success of a homebrewer's Berliner Weisse collaboration with a local brewery.

As mentioned above...Wakefield's beers aren't included on that list because his brewery still hasn't opened and his pilot batches with CCB are considered "retired"

If you were to include the scores of his "retired" beers then the top five would look different. Based on review score, Wakefield would have the top 2 Berliners and 3 of the top 5. Again, not trying to take away from @deGardebrewing and I am not saying the "top" lists on BA and the review scores are the end all be all...but the OP used it as the basis of his post.

As for @leedorham, I don't think you can declare the list bogus unless you've at least had some of the beers on the list or some of deGarde's beers. By your own admissions, you haven't had that many Berliner Weisses and very few of the top ones. You say that New Glarus would be in the top 5 and that you consider Hottenroth great, yet you only rated Hottenroth a 3.5 which isn't what I would consider the rating one would give a "great" beer. Now everyone's tastes are their own and I'm not trying to attack you based on your tastes and preferences (I enjoyed both those beers, but don't consider them great). But to declare it "bogus" that de Garde Brewing could have 8 of the top 10 beers just based on your personal taste and without having them is a bit ridiculous. Perhaps you just don't really like this style.

I love Berliner Weisses and it is one of my favorite styles...especially the fruited "Florida Weisses." I am always trying to find new ones and stocking up on my favorites. I wish that there were more of them and they were more readily available (bottles/cans). Again, I haven't had the chance to try any of the de Garde beers but I really want to because it sounds like they have elevated the style.

 

Ching Ching was first released in 2011, before Wakefield and De Garde were even conceived. So perhaps the style should be named Bend Weisse.

Based on a conversation with a CCB brewer at OBF, there's no question he thought the style is unique and created in Florida. He described their brewing process in a fair amount of detail, and how it is unique. Hmm, sounds like what De Garde is doing. "Who?"
The style is not unique and is proliferating across U.S. I'm sure when the Midwest gets involved, the top list will shift dramatically.

 

What did they say their brewing process is? I wasn't under the impression that they were fermented with wild yeast in Florida.

 

I would love to get in on those Florida berliners - have heard amazing things about wakefield. Berlinerweisses are one of my favorite styles.

I really enjoyed Hottenroth and German Sparkle Party. I honestly didn't thing Ching Ching was anything exceptional.

As for De Garde, I'm a fanboy. I think they make not only the best berliners I have had, they make the some of the best beer I have ever had. period. Anybody just needs to look to the Imperial Boysenberry Bu to realize that there is something beyond comprehension with what De Garde is doing. I have never had a beer like that.

 

Had Blackberry Bu today, add that to my favorites list.

 

No wild yeast in Florida? CCB definitely has a wild program now. I thought the guy said they were allowing the wort to ferment open for a short period of time. But perhaps not - they could be adding purchased yeast. His basic assertion was that brewers making fruited wild ales add syrup at the end of the brewing process to make a beer a fruity flavor. Instead, CCB used real fruit in their Berliner, adding it after a couple days of primary fermentation. This is the Floridaweisse style, according to him.

 

Most (American?) Berliners are brewed by either sour mash/wort or adding cultured lacto and finished off by Sacc. I don't know if anyone else makes it like de Garde, but I don't know all the Florida breweries processes. And unless there is proof otherwise, it seems the fresh fruit in a Berliner was sparked at Peg's so I don't think his statements about them starting it are false? Anyways it can be called anything as long as the trend of delicious fruit sours continues. I vote for American lacto forward wheat sours, catchy huh.

 

Passionfruit Dragonfruit Berliner was first released in early 2011 (the BA listing was created about 3 months before Ching Ching...I know that not always accurate but it's all I have to go off of). J Wakefield first brewed it as a Pro-Am collaboration with CCB. So, while he was just a homebrewer at the time, thanks to CCB's backing and the quality of the berliner it quickly became popular and made it onto a number of "best beer lists" for 2011.

I definitely agree that the style isn't unique to either Florida or Oregon, and it's gaining popularity (just like Gose) as sours continue to become more and more popular in the US. There are good berliner weisses all across the country (Bruery Hottenroth, New Glarus Berliner, and the tragically underrated Berliners by August Schell Brewing). Heck, if New Glarus made a fruited Berliner, I'm sure it'd become all that BA would talk about. Actually...why HAVEN'T they done this?!

I desperately need to be educated on what de Garde is doing...feel free to send me some Boysenberry Bu and some other bottles to rectify my tragic ignorance.

Can't speak to the brewing process...can only speak to the experience of drinking these beers.

Obviously, the process of adding fresh fruit to the fermentation process existed long before the "Florida Weisse." This adaptation of something that was commonplace in other sour styles. I know that Wayne Wambles (brewmaster at CCB) doesn't like to use the term American Wild Ale to describe the "sours" that CCB brews. He is an advocated for the "American Sour Ale" style name for beers like Lacto Guava Grove that aren't using Brett or other wild yeasts.