Fernseh-Pils-a-thon 2013

Tony, you ask: “Exactly how they can produce beer that's not horrible yet's cheaper than the bottle is a lesson BMC beers could learn from.”

Permit me to suggest that because of the differing beer history of Germany and the US, the contemporary beers will be different.

Germany has a storied beer history and it is my understanding that just a few decades ago a ‘typical’ German Pilsner would be a tasty beer by most BA standards: hopping levels over 30 IBUs with noticeable Pilsner malt and Noble hop flavor/aroma. Obviously over the past few decades, low price and low flavored beers such as Grafenwalder Pils were developed.

Several decades ago in the US the typical beer was an AAL with hopping levels less than 30 IBUs. Over the years a ‘new’ beer was invented: the ubiquitous Light (or Lite) beer. So, a beer that was not too robust to begin with was made to be even less robust from a color/flavor/mouthfeel perspective. With Bud Light being the top selling beer in the US I question that AB (or MillerCoors) really has an economic incentive to learn anything in this particular instance.

I have never purchased a 6-pack of Bud Light so I really don’t know what a typical price is for this beer. Maybe something like Natural Light is a ‘better’ example of a budget beer? At State Line Liquors (Elkton, MD) the online listed prices for a 6-pack of Natural Light is:

· $3.99 for cans

· $4.99 for bottles

So, a single can from the 6-pack costs 66.5 cents; a single bottle is 83 2 cents. This ignores sales tax.

As @einhorn posted: “…even cheap beer in the states looks expensive compared to this.”

Cheers!

Jack

 

Actually, there have been cheap beers available in Germany for a long time like Spar and Neptun, not to mention Radeberger when it was imported from the former DDR. I can remember when the first Fernsehpils were launched throughout Germany and at that time, they were pretty good. Veltins had a very recognizable taste, Bitburger was quite aromatic and even Warsteiner tasted like it came out of a beer cellar and not a stainless steel tank. Jever Pils proudly proclaimed "if our beer is too bitter for you, then drink something else". This was all to change. Cut the production costs by reducing the amount of ingredients and the processing time. Convince German beer drinkers that the Fernsehpils are of better quality. We brewers could not believe that the public bought into this strategy: local beer is low quality, national brands are better with their "international" taste? Back in the mid 90´s, I was working at the Rothaus Brewery in the Black Forest and happened to be in a local tavern one evening. Now this was before Rothaus busted out of its shell. A group of about 10 people came into the tavern and wanted Warsteiner all around. The waitress replied that they did not have Warsteiner, only the local beer from the Rothaus Brewery. The entire group unanimously agreed to immediately exit the establishment and go look for their prized Fernsehpils. I thought to myself, do you people not understand that we are making much better Pils just down the road from here? They did not and they still do not and I am afraid that they never will.

 

I really enjoy reading your posts!

Please keep them coming!!

You mentioned a couple of interesting things:

· “Convince German beer drinkers that the Fernsehpils are of better quality.”

· “The entire group unanimously agreed to immediately exit the establishment and go look for their prized Fernsehpils. I thought to myself, do you people not understand that we are making much better Pils just down the road from here?”

BA is very much dominated by American posts. In the Beer Talk forum there is often discussion which strongly intimates that via advertising US beer drinkers are ‘brain washed’ to drink very light tasting beers like Bud Light, Coors Light, Miller Lite, etc.

Since the US is a market driven economy I often discuss in response to those posts that the majority of American beer drinkers drink beers like Bud Light, etc. not because some BMC Marketing & Sales person (and their advertising firms they contract with) convinced them this is the ‘best’ beer but because this is the type of beers they want to drink. Where I think that Marketing & Sales folks and their advertisers do make a difference is that they:

· ‘Remind’ beer consumers to purchase their products

· Implant their suggestion to buy Bud Light vs. Coors Light/Miller Lite

Do you really think that German beer companies (and their advertising firms) are truly capable of convincing German beer drinkers to consume a product that is not what they want?

Cheers!

 

I agree that Light beer in the US is the result of customers actually preferring to drink a very cold, light tasting, highly carbonated product with moderate alcohol content. In the US, people grow up drinking soda pop which tastes thin and sweet and when they come of drinking age, they simply switch to a similar, but slightly alcoholic product called light beer. This was explained to me by the late great Beer Hunter Michael Jackson at a conference in Freising. Light beer was an easy sell. All the brewers had to do was show male consumers that it was not effeminate to drink light beer. They did this through paid testimonials from real men, primarily famous sports heroes. Gablinger's Diet Beer and Meister Brau Lite failed, but with proper advertising, Miller Lite and Bud Light went on to become great successes. Today, 6 of the 7 best-selling beers in America are light beers.

The situation is quite different in Germany. We actually tried to brew and sell light beers in the late 80´s and early 90´s since they represented greater profit for the brewery with regard to the much lowered cost of ingredients. For some time, many breweries decided to brew a light beer. You would go into the beverage market and see light lagers and light Weizenbier in abundance. This did not last long as we were unable to establish a demand for this product, although some brewers continue to produce light beers which today represent less than 1% of the market. Most Germans make a very clear distinction: If I am driving, I will drink non-alcoholic beer and if not, I will drink real beer. Non-alcoholic beer is a growing section of an otherwise stagnating German beer market.

Enter the Fernsehpils which succeeded where German light beer did not. Could marketing and advertising be the only reasons for its success? No, but they did play a significant role in this process. What the Fernsehpils did was break the loyalty bond between the local brewery and the population in its immediate vicinity. The old saying goes that you would only drink beer brewed within sight of the brewery´s smokestack. Through slick new packaging, premium marketing, very aggressive pricing and the use of celebrities (in my generation, Horst Schimanski drank König Pils, today it is Til Schweiger), the perception of Fernsehpils was elevated above that of the village beer. Add to this the tied house approach of most of Germany´s taverns and restaurants and the smaller breweries were doomed to failure. Tied house means that a brewery comes into an establishment and offers the owners an exclusive contract which spells out that they will only serve that brewery´s beer for a number of years to come. In return, they get signs, glassware, beer coasters, lighting and other types of point of sale items for free or at a very minimal cost. Obviously, a little village brewery cannot even start to compete here. The family of one of my friends owned a small brewery near Schweinfurt. They tried everything to keep their customer base to include delivering the beer to your doorstep for free, but in the end also succumbed to the power of the Fernsehpils because they simply could not match the price.

And as I stated in a previous post, back in the day, Fernsehpils was really pretty good. So what happened? The bottom dropped out of the German beer market. Why? This is the topic of a doctoral thesis, but tougher drinking and driving penalties, a shift in the workforce resulting in fewer and fewer manual laborers, a tendency to disregard age-old traditions like the weekly Stammtisch or male singing choirs or hunting clubs and concerns about weight gain and physical fitness certainly contributed to this decline. As a result, the big brewers sought to entice a larger audience, particularly young people and women, through less characteristic, less flavorful products. Mass appeal and maximizing profits are the very hallmarks of corporate thinking, unlike the small brewers who, through local distribution, were often content to simply support their families and pay their employees.

Now, I am aware that many are going to say, “Well, that is how a free market works. Those who play the game better, win.” The problem I have with this is that not only has the beer quality suffered, but the cultural aspects associated with local breweries have been devastated. Your local brewery was an integral part of your community which not only provided employment, but was closely involved in the planning of events and festivals, supporting the fire company and the local clubs, donating to the church and other worthwhile causes. Does anybody really believe that the corporate executives in Warstein, Krombach or Bitburg give a damn about your little get-togethers these days? They do, but only to the extent of how many Euros it puts in their pockets.

It may be difficult for people in the United States to comprehend just how intimate the relationship in Germany was (and sometimes still is, but rapidly disappearing) between the local brewery and the community. This is not comparable to some new age brewpub in town. We are talking about brewing families who had been essential parts of local culture for centuries suddenly being wiped out of economic existence. Would many small breweries have closed if the Fernsehpils had never arrived? Certainly, some would have anyway, but the Fernsehpils drove the last nail in many, many brewing coffins. My hometown brewery, Brauerei Wolf, closed in 2009 due to insolvency after 270 years of brewing. Here once again is the link to all the breweries closed just in Franconia, not in all of Germany, since the year 2000. It is quite alarming.

http://www.braufranken.de/html/brauschluss.html

 

An outstanding report. All things I've said before, but much better by you. You really summarized the entire brew industry... thank you. You concisely explained things with really wonderful examples.

Unfortunately, all of what you said is true. And unfortunately for the small town brewers, the modern consumer in their own home towns didn't choose their home town brew over the Fernsehbiere, for reasons you outlined above. Nonetheless, like many other historical and traditional work, modern life has made much of financially untenable. It's a fact of life from the local Bäckerei to the Metzger, where most small towns have lost theirs due to a local supermarket moving in nearby.

However, in today's age, many of the traditional businesses failed to adapt to the modern world. Yes, price is important at the POS, but so is today image and marketing, as well as being innovative in addition to focusing on producing a quality product. Yet no matter if you've made the best widget for centuries, if you aren't able to get the word out about your product and explain to people why they should prefer it over another, then simply relying on an aging clientele to support you isn't a winning strategy. Yes, nostalgia is nice, but no matter what

Exhibit A of a local tiny brewery that's now thriving and successful is one we've discussed plenty in this forum: Brauerei Faust. They've focused on producing a quality product, have had a laser like game plan they've stuck to (sell only in their region and innovatively market the hell out the plus side of their product as a local product to create a pride factor, an emotional basis for the consumer to choose their product, and release innovative products.) Though they're within an hours drive of Frankfurt and the huge Rhein-Main-Gebiet market, you can't find their product here, which means they're sticking to their game plan of not growing beyond their own capacity to remain financially viable and focusing on their own region.

Exhibit B is another small, local brewery from Bayern from which I've reviewed of their beers here and have really liked what they've done: Private Landbrauerei Schönram. Their head brewer is American and he's turned a staid, above average brewery into an award winning (European Beer Star in der Kategorie German-Style Pilsner: 2011 Bronze-Medaille, 2010 Silber-Medaille, 2009 Gold-Medaille) becoming a prime example of what I'd call a true German Craft beer producing excellent traditional styles as well as innovative styles which mix German and non-traditional ingredients such as Saphir hops, or an IPA.

Finally, look at the small breweries which are growing, and they're all craft brewers focusing on non-traditional styles, and... here's the interesting point, except for Crew Republic, which is in München, many of these are based in very small towns, such as Braukunstkeller, based in the Spessart, a mountainous, rural region between Frankfurt and Mannheim, and Pax Bräu, based in a tiny, rural town in the Röhn near the Bayern/Thüringen border. Both share the proclivity of modern marketing, integrating innovative beer styles with German styles.

Overall, there is hope, but staying with a strategy based on a century's old plan isn't viable today, so as with all other industries, it's adapt or die.

 

But you almost make it sound like those are the *only* places thriving, when the fact is that 100s of small breweries throughout Franconia, the Oberpfalz, and the rest of Bayern are doing exceptionally well (and doing so by simply sticking to tradition). Again I will refer back to @Crusader's astute post: there are those who drink macro, those who drink 'craft' and those who drink traditional beers -- and in highly traditional areas, many traditional brewers continue to do quite well.

Interestingly enough, I was just reading this post by Seth Godin, a fairly well-known and respected blogger here in the U.S. http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2014/10/famous-to-the-family.html He talks about 'micro-targeting' and pushing companies to find what he refers to as a 'tribe' of customers. Never to be all things to all people, but rather to be the single best provider of a truly unique service to a select number of people who 'get it' and thus become hard core loyalists. Many small, traditional breweries in Bavaria retain their 'tribe' of loyalists.

And while the 'craft' movement may be doing exceedingly well right now, and while a rising tide may float all boats, individual 'craft' breweries would do well to court their own tribe of brand loyalists if they are to survive the inevitable shakeout that is coming.

 

I don't believe I did; rather, I selected two examples as illustrations of my point. the "only" is your interpretation, not mine.

Are these the exceptions that prove the rule? Are these the ones, let's say Mahrs Brau, which shows that marketing and having a niche and exploiting it works. Look at that list of Brauereiausterben again. Look, really look. I'll wait. I know most of you can't read German, but if you could, it's a sad sad list. What comes to mind is that many of them come from small towns or villages, which, for a variety of reasons, weren't economically viable in the modern world. Pech gehabt? (Bad luck?) Not really, though there are a myriad of reasons why concerns go under, the main reasons were well explained by @felsenpils. The brewers in and around Bamberg have it easier, really, for they've got a built in tourist industry that's developed, but overall, other than those, the small town German brewer has to find a niche, develop a survival strategy, and use modern marketing methods to entice paying customers.

This is a really interesting thesis. I believe Seth Godin's right in explaining the allure and success of a myriad of places from niche coffee shops to whatever, and applies really to any going concern.

Personally, I hope traditional small town brewers stay in business and thrive, though I'm not optimistic unless they have an enlightened generation leading them. I really hope the Brauereigaststätte, or the small town brewer in Germany survives and thrives. The tide isn't with them, though. The overall tide's sinking, sucking them down the drain that the economics, the generational death of a disadvantageous demographics will lead. There may be nothing we can do about it. Only the small brewers can do something, and it's really a hard fight, for they're fighting the Fernsehbiere, the changing demographics, the overall lifestyle changes, and yes, inertia.

The ones who survive will be stronger and better, or just better marketers with a better strategy. We, I mean @herrburgess, can rail against this, can fight windmills, but really, what's the purpose? Especially if you're not over here helping the cause you're fighting. I'm here, and my influence is minuscule, and we're in the equivalent of the early 1990's of the American beer revival. Germans will decide this, regardless of what we say here on BA. If they're not interested in keeping their cultural and economic heritage, and paying the extra costs that always entails, then what's the use of flailing about here?

 

All good points. But what happens when the inevitable shakeout hits and the "craft" marketing-miracle model no longer looks like a saving grace, but just another trend that boomed and busted? That day is coming, you know.... As to the "purpose": it is to advocate for, and preserve, the best beers -- be they traditional, macro, or "craft."

EDIT: prediction: in the coming 10 years you'll see far more "craft" brewers close than "traditional" ones.

 

Maybe, but that's 10+ years down the road, if the craft brews even ever take off, which isn't at all a given. Is the craft boom bust in the US? The craft beer revival has been a 25 year endeavor and it's just now reaching the mainstream consciousness, but that doesn't mean it's a bust, does it? Scott, you continue to extrapolate your likes/dislikes of what's happening in the US craft scene on Germany, and it's a non-sequitur. The craft scene in Germany is still in the new-born stage, or the early 1990s of the US stage. Let's see where it goes and please, stop being such a Debbie-downer.

 

It seems to be the model many are following and/or proposing to spur a revival in Germany. If I can disabuse anyone of the notion that the U.S. model is the best one to follow, then I'm probably going to do that. Sorry if that bums you out.

 

Doesn't bum me out... just feel your opinions would be best given to those contacts you have in the Bamberg brewing world. Please, don't stop giving us your opinion. If everyone agreed, life'd be boring.

There will be always be a majority of Germans that will drink terrible beer, just like there will be in America. There will also be those who hate craft versions of beer, in Germany as in American, and that's ok. I just how it is. There's a reason average and mediocre are synonyms. That's also why we're talking about a niche and another niche. I severely hope the traditional brewers of quality beer succeed, as well as the American-like craft brewers, but they're like a symbiosis where one won't be able to survive without the other.

 

@boddhitree stated: “I severely hope the traditional brewers of quality beer succeed, as well as the American-like craft brewers, but they're like a symbiosis where one won't be able to survive without the other.”

While I have an appreciation on the concept that @Crusader made mention of on the differentiation of the beer drinking market (e.g., some beer drinkers will drink traditional beers and others will drink craft beers) I really doubt there is a clean line between beer markets. I would not suggest that I am a good representative of the worldwide beer market but in my refrigerator right now (beyond homebrews) is:

· Schlenkerla Helles Lagerbier

· Tripel Karmeliet

· Weihenstephaner Octoberfestbier

· New Glarus Berliner Weiss

· Schell’s Arminius Hoppy Pale Lager

· Victory DirtWolf

· etc.

I am sure that there are some beer drinkers in Europe (including Germany) who are able to appreciate drinking both traditional and non-traditional beers. It may indeed be that the beer market of ‘cross over’ beer drinkers is smaller than for those that will only drink traditional beers and those that will only drink craft beers but I do believe that this ‘cross over’ market does indeed exist.

Cheers!

 

I also think that there's a cross over market, I'm part of it myself obviously. As in all things there is a spectrum to these things, but also groups of individuals which are leaning more strongly towards one side. You have your moderates, disinterested and pragmatists and then you have your idealists and zealots. It's human nature, people being interested in different things to varying degrees, specialization of interests and of devoting more time, resources and attention to certain things than others. That simple observation is my starting point and my basis for believing that all "three" markets have a good chance at being successful in the long run, even as plenty of breweries will continue to fall by the wayside (I think Germany has some ways to go before the consolidation of breweries starts to level out, on this issue I am not as optimistic, it simply has alot of breweries compared with most other countries and a shrinking overall consumption, although this will no doubt stabilize itself at some (lower) point).

 

My fridge is stocked similarly to Jack's. I also have some Schlenkerla (mine's the maerzen) but it's mixed in with a few Crooked Stave bottles, a Fantome Saison, an Odell mixed pack, some random Ska cans, 2-3 Avery barrel-aged beers, and some Backcountry DIPA's.
Once I find a brewer I like, I'm a customer for the foreseeable future. All of those are more or less permanent rotators in my fridge.

 

Hate to be a downer here, but why did you put your comment in this particular thread? No mention of Fernsehbiere. Shouldn't this have been in the "Märican Beers, Bought and Drunk" thread?

 

All of these threads (including the main one in the Beer Talk forum) are starting to blend together in my mind. Especially after seeing Jack's comment. Sorry to go off topic!

To bring things back around - exactly which nationwide pilsners are considered Fernsehbiere? I assume Radeberger, Beck's, Warsteiner, Koenig, Bit, and such...but what about Flensburger, Jever, Veltins, Paulaner, Spaten, Kaiserdom, etc. ?

 

Fernsehbiere: Flensburger, Jever, Veltins, Paulaner... all owed by conglomerates. Spaten isn't even sold in Germany to my knowledge, except maybe in Mü. It's an expert only brand owned by the Radeburger Gruppe, as is Jever. Veltins is an independent brewery, but to compete with the big boys, I'm sure they've dumbed down their beer a lot. I remember drinking it in the 80s and it was a lot better in my memory. Kaiserdom... never seen it outside of Bamberg, so don't know about that.
You forgot Krombacher, and a few others, like Radeberger, Oettinger.
Actually, a Fernsehbier doesn't have to advertise on TV, just be mass market and dumbed down taste.

Here's a list of the top 14 selling beers from Bild Zeitung, taken from FUCKUP Weblog from this year.

Platz 1: Krombacher (Vorjahr: 1)

Platz 2: Bitburger (Vorjahr: 2)

Platz 3: Warsteiner (Vorjahr: 3)

Platz 4: Beck's (Vorjahr: 6)

Platz 5: Hasseröder (Vorjahr: 5)

Platz 6: Veltins (Vorjahr: 4)

Platz 7: Radeberger (Vorjahr: 7)

Platz 8: Königs Pilsener (Vorjahr: 8)

Platz 9: Erdinger (Vorjahr: 10)

Platz 10: Holsten Pilsener (Vorjahr: 9)

Platz 11: Jever (Vorjahr: 11)

Platz 12: Paulaner (nur Weißbier) (Vorjahr: 13)

Platz 13: Diebels (Vorjahr: 12)

Platz 14: Franziskaner (Vorjahr: 14)

 

With the exception of Krombacher and Holsten (and the unlisted Oettinger), I used to like all of those beers well enough. And to be honest, I still do. Oettinger's introduction in the 90s is what really started the downward spiral in terms of both quality and price. Everyone you used to talk to would tell you in no uncertain terms that Oettinger was crap. But a crate for 5-6 Euro was often too good to pass up. Why Germany -- which is normally excellent about preventing price-dumping -- never did anything to better regulate the market (as @einhorn frequently points out) is beyond me. Must be the power of the conglomerates' (lobbying) money and their recognizing the market advantages of dumbing down and dumping prices.

 

http://sz-magazin.sueddeutsche.de/texte/anzeigen/42303/Absturz

 

The Aldi model is and was also a huge influence on German food & beverage prices, along with the "Geiz ist Geil" (stinginess is cool) mentality which made buying cheap (inexpensive) food & drink socially acceptable. Believe me, it was not always that way, I know of people who used to drive to an Aldi far from home so that they would not be seen there.

The supermarket and Getraenkeshop business is suffering accordingly.