Sour Starter From Grain for Berliner Weisse

http://ryanbrews.blogspot.com/2014/01/wild-yeast-wrangling-how-i-wild-ferment.html

i would avoid the high temps.....

 

Did you do an article on apple juice for a starter too?

 

I haven't, I think the reason for apple juice in lacto starters is due to the type of sugar present (glucose/fructose), from what I recall the commercial strain of lacto from WY is homofermentative (glucose only), which is probably why it works so well for growing that strain up, that reason is probably also why most people dont get beers that are very sour using that strain (glucose is a minor component of wort)

 

Even if trying to culture up Lacto? IIRC, from scholarly article, L. delbrueckii grows best at temps around 120 F and pH around 5.5.

 

I was speaking more about growing up a wild mixed culture, pure cultures are a different beast and higher temps do speed up growth rates, however even when growing up WY/WL lactic cultures (which im currently doing with the WY L. Brevis) I still go at ~65-72F, that's the temp I ferment at so that's what I grow up my cultures at.

 

Where your source of L. Brevis btw? Cascade dregs?

 

L. Brevis WY5223 is a current PC offering, it apparently produces both alcohol and lactic acid, so I am planning a 100% lactic fermented batch this weekend

I generally make mine with a stir plate so I dont see the pellicle until its in the primary fermentor, even then it doesnt develop till very very late in the ferment, I would do a few step ups of the culture to weed out the bad bugs, I also highly suggest tasting your last starter to see if you like the general flavor profile it has (If you taste starters enough you can get past the oxidized flavors and just notice the yeast/bacterial flavor compounds, if you havent ever tasted starter wort I highly suggest you try it from time to time)

 

http://www.bear-flavored.com/2013/08/which-method-of-brewing-berliner-weisse.html
This blog has been the best source of culturing information for me. I have tried his technique and can say that it works well to select for Lactobacillus in a wild grain-based starter. Interestingly, after you have your starter stepped up the low pH of the culture should help to eliminate unwanted bacteria/microbes from growing in your starter. This technique does not use a stirplate as the constant mixing of oxygen from the air would encourage the growth of unwanted bacteria that can seriously foul-up your starter. Purging the starter vessel with CO2 is a good way to safeguard against this.

 

3wks is a loooong time! The second step might still have a touch of bad smells/flavor but ive never had the third step be off

You might think of adding some chalk in a few days once you see activity

One thing I misstated previously was that I often use a stir plate, I do that only with a "proofed" culture, that is one ive grown up and I am comfortable with, even then i dont set it to vigorously stir, rather just barely fast enough to keep the stir bar from not moving

 

Its probably totally fine, the reason for my concern is that you can actually inhibit the lactic bacteria if the ph gets too low.