"Where did all the reasonable traders go?" A Rant

mostly agree with you except for the bolded.

when I trade with my regs, it's ALL about dollar value and not rarity, bottle count, etc.

the tax thing kills me. like really? we all pay tax (at least, I think we do, lol)

 

It sounds like it's more about you getting what you want and the other guy accepting your offer. Just my interpretation.

Not using $4$ means setting an arbitrary value. Again, just my interpretation.

 

Well, maybe if you would have let me make an offer for that NG Peach, you wouldn't have had such a bad experience !! haha, Good luck. There are plenty of good traders out there, sometimes you just have to sort thru the ones who want to "WIN"

 

Dark Lord isn't even worth $15, so yeah, that's incorrect.

 

I totally understand that some beers don't necessarily trade $4$. But you complained about "arbitrary value", and if you're not using dollars in the equation, then you have to set an arbitrary value. I'm fine with that. It just comes off sounding like you're unhappy that other people's arbitrary value doesn't match up to your arbitrary value. I'm fine with that too.

As for the fairness of the trade you bring up, Upland wasn't mentioned in your first post, so I was actually a little confused by your example. That's why I responded more to the "meat" of your post rather than the trade offers/value comments.

 

This is weird because I feel like the obvious answer is yes to both. Except, DL isn't worth anything to anyone who has had it before if that's what you are getting at.

 

For the most part I'll stick close to $4$ and even go by the average retail cost and not the super inflated Philly prices that I pay. In the past few months though I've seen guys try to add more value of their beer by including how long they had to drive to get said beers, or how long they waited in lines. It's not like everything I get is a breeze to obtain. One guy gets regular shipments of a particular beer and wanted to factor in the shipping cost it takes to get to him first and the extras he had to send to get it. I just find this ridiculous. Or maybe I'm wrong and should start recording my mileage.

 

OP, you are talking in circles here. You state "As soon as you make this some kind of score keeping system around some arbitrary value, your missing the point," but later, in complaining about $4$ trades, state that dollar value shouldn't apply when dealing in "rare and collectible beers...meaning that these have some arbitrary value (not the objective value of what the product sold for) that is determined by its rarity and collectibility. You also later state "You believe that Dark Lord is only worth 15 bucks?," which indicates that you associate greater value to your Dark Lord than what was paid. That is a completely arbitrary assessment of value. It seems in this case, you feel that you would be taken advantage of or shortchanged of "value" if your DL was traded for $15. In many ways, you are basically complaining about traders that try to squeeze every drop of value from their beers, but also those that won't allow you to do the same with yours (in this case, DL) by having the gall to only trade you DLs $ amount.

 

Every trade I do, I start with $4$ and try to trade beers of similar "rarity" and demands for each other. I don't think you can be any more fair than that approach. I'd say 90% of my 100+ trades were like this and every partner was happy with this approach. I won't bother with a few bucks difference or get hung up on which is "more rare". I also believe that every trade is a potential long-term trade partner in waiting so if it's not outrageously off, I'm perfectly OK with making the other person happy.

That said, the trading community is wide-ranging in trading approaches. There isn't a set absolute way to discuss and agree on values. It's up to you and the potential partner to hash it out. If you can't agree on things, part ways. Bitching about people not agreeing with how you deal with valuing beer will only show that you're not flexible with negotiation and likely potentially turn off others from trading with you.

 

and this is why you're an elite-level trader. wish we lived further apart, so we could trade, lol. maybe we'll have to meet up for beers at Tired Hands one afternoon, and talk about how Dark Lord is barely worth $7.14

 

you cannot make blanket statements like this, while trying to justify your earlier points, and expect to be taken seriously, sorry. Two De Garde Bu beers equal $16. Do you think one Dark Lord is worth 2 of them?

How about Prop (using an example that may be relevant to someone from IL)? That was a $20 beer, over 12,000 bottles. Should it trade for $40 worth of beer? $60? I don't get how you value beer. It seems intensely personal, and based on what you value the beer at.

 

This thread makes no sense to me. When I trade, I always start at $4$ as a point of comparison, so neither side gets taken advantage of. Then, if there is a "rarity disparity" (see what I did there!? ) and I actually care about that, we'll discuss.

As an example, I just traded a Grey Monday, an Atrial, a Nocturn, and 3 other bottles, for some Avery and Crooked Stave bottles. I guess in terms of "rarity" I sent much more rare stuff than I got, but we were both super happy with the deal, and the $4$ was pretty right on.

If you are having trouble getting people to trade with you, the problem is likely you, and not them. Don't worry so much about rarity - it will all work out.

P.S. - everyone I've traded with has walked away happy. This method works

 

lulz Ken, making sense. pshaw

 

Hahaha...I'm at TH nearly every Thursday, but will make an exception if you can find a weekend day to come down. I'm always in the mood to discuss the price of sweetened soy sauce

 

This is essentially what his point is, but he doesn't recognize it. The thing is, he is simply looking for traders that value beers the same way that he does, which is completely reasonable. However, he is presenting it as some grand point wherein he condemns those who set arbitrary values while simultaneously condemning objective values (dollar value of the product) and arguing for arbitrary evaluations or "rarity." Similar, he argues against others overvaluing their beers while simultaneously complaining that others undervalue his beers (which, when roles are reversed, may be seen as him overvaluing his beers, the very thing he complains about). The only consistency in his argument is that he finds it problematic when others don't agree with his value assessment. That is fine, he should trade with people that see things in a similar manner as himself. However, his argument is misplaced and contradictory.