Resurrecting an IPA: Cluster's Last Stand vs Pabst's Ballantine

Clusters Last Stand-The malt recipe was based on historical Ballantine IPA, the hops were too, but with the addition of Tomahawk to the hop bill of Bullion and Cluster. My impression of the resurrected Ballantine IPA is that the hop recipe has been updated significantly to provide more American Citrusy and Stone Fruit character. The Clusters Last Stand was a fun project-we originally created this beer with Dave at Smuttynose and Tod Mot at Portsmouth Brewery. Smuttynose has brewed it a couple of times since. I am looking for samples if anyone has any....:-)

 

Thank you Mitch (@MitchAtStone) for participating in this thread discussion.

I think it is also noteworthy to state that Cluster’s Last Stand is based upon Bill Pierce’s recipe (which is published in Mitch’s IPA book). I am friends with Bill Pierce (an accomplished homebrewer and homebrew author). I sent an e-mail to a local (local to me) beer store guy to see if I could get some bottles of this beer. My intention was to send one bottle to Bill Pierce but if I can get multiple bottles I will be happy to send one to Mitch as well.

Cheers!

 

I went to the Clusters release at the brewery and brought back a few bottles with me. The few I have had were very enjoyable with lots of citrus and nice malt flavors. It has a very nice mouth feel. I finally located a 750 ml of Ballantines last week and sat down on Friday to compare the two side by side. To even try to put these two at the same level was very hard, the Ballantine was over 60 days old to start with. It seemed to be a little lacking in the hop flavor maybe because of it's age. It was a drinkable beer just not at the same level as the Clusters. Maybe if they can get out some fresh Ballantine it would make for a better comparison.

 

We tried the Pabst Ballentine at a recent Oktoberfest beer festival in Cypress, CA. I only walked over to the Pabst table , as someone mentioned they had an IPA. As I was sure that was a mistake, we walked over to verify and low and behold they has resurrected an old beer. For Pabst, it was very good. I'd buy it if it were available here. Not as overpowering as some other California style IPA's.

 

Wow so cool that you joined in. Just got mine today plenty on shelf PM me if you want.

 

I did a comparison tonight and posted it on WBAYDN. The second part with my impressions is here:
http://www.beeradvocate.com/communi...u-drinking-now-720.218049/page-5#post-2849507

The only reason I'm not posting more than a link is that @cavedave is doing the same thing soon, and might not want to be influenced either way.

 

Thanks man, appreciate it. Actually had one of the Ballantines but waiting for a moment to do the side by side with @doomXsaloon, hopefully this weekend. Will PM you when we do so we can both post our thoughts.

and I agree @zid, that Ballantine had four fingers of really thick almost whipped cream that lasted, what a great head.

 

Cluster currently on tap at TJ's.

 

Yeah, Ballantine IPA is one gorgeous looking beer. I gave the appearance a 4.5 out of 5.

 

It would be really interesting, I think probably to several of us, if you could take a bit of time to describe the way in which you and the others involved went about "reverse engineering" the Clusters Last Stand from the recipe you found. (Keeping in mind that some of us are not home brewers... ).

I've heard a bit here and there about how people tackle this kind of project and do know a good bit about such reverse engineering in other domains and so would greatly like to learn more about how it works with beer, especially the role of your expertise and educated judgment with beer and brewing, etc.

Thanks in advance if its something you are willing and able to take the time to contribute.

 

Tried Custer's Last Stand a few weeks ago and Ballantine last night. I was very happy with Ballantine. Especially since I paid more for a bomber of Cluster's v. the six pack of Ballantine.

 

Ballantine IPA Bright and bitter, right in the aroma to the mouth. Malty sweet, though, with some yeasty tart, then pine and herbal at the end of the sip. Not a very blended taste, which is surprising, considering the old Ballantine IPA was aged in oak IIRC, and not really balanced either, with more pine bitter than you would think would work. Somehow it does work though, and this unbalanced brightly sharp herbally bitter beer is pretty tasty.

Cluster's is less aromatic, but it shows additional differences in that there is definitely a touch of citrus and floral to it, and less pine. The taste also is different than the Pabst version, with that citrus and floral key players with lighter pine and herbal. It is blended well, less yeaty tart, less blatant pine and herbal bitter, but at the end of the sip, when the floral and citrus step back, you can't help but feel it has just about the same flavors going .

It also should be noted that @doomXsaloon got a bit of a catty flavor from the Cluster's.

I like the Pabst version better, and so did @Oldladyfingers and @doomXsaloon

 

I loved ballantine. I thought ti was beyond solid. A terribly drinkable IPA made a by a "macro" brewer priving beyond a shadow of a doubt that the iPA was within anyone's grasp and answering the age old BA quesiton " if they could make one a 'dese would they?' I passed on cluster's last stand at the shop the other day because I had no idea the significance. I'll go back.

 

I have to agree in your taste test I'm beginning to think that maybe the higher ABV 8.8% in the Clusters over the 7% in the Ballantine is where the biggest difference in the taste of these two lie.

 

Nice job, Dave. it looks like we wound up in the same place, pretty much. Pabst really did a great job with the Ballantine. I like it more each time I have it- that wood technique really does something special, to me it kind of unifies everything that's going on, and gives an added dimension to the lingering bitterness.

 

So, it’s halftime of the Dallas-Seattle game so time for a report.

I conducted a side-by-side evaluation of Smuttynose Cluster’s Last Stand vs. Ballantine IPA. I enlisted the help of my wife; she did here tastings blind.

Below are my impressions of the two beers:

Appearance

Ballantine: Clear amber with a nice fluffy white head

Cluster’s Last Stand: Hazy amber color with a nice flufy white head.

Aroma

Ballantine: There is a strong hop aroma; I mostly perceive pine/resin but there is some citrus here as well (more so in the background). There is also a bit of malt on the nose but just a hint.

Cluster’s Last Stand: A vibrant citrus hop aroma; I did not perceive any malt aroma initially.

Taste:

Ballantine: The flavor pretty much follows the nose: a nice hoppy flavor of pine/resin with a bit of citrus. I notice the malt a bit more on the flavor as compared to the nose

Cluster’s Last Stand: The taste sort of followed the aroma with citrus being the dominant flavor but there were other hop flavors as well; some earthy flavors. Not much in the way of malt flavor initially but I noticed the malt more as the beer warmed/opened up.

Mouthfeel

Ballantine: A medium mouthfeel and a medium finish.

Cluster’s Last Stand: A medium-thin mouthfeel with a medium/dry finish.

Overall

Ballantine: I really liked this beer! I very much enjoy the hop contribution and I appreciate the maltiness that complements the hop flavor/aroma. A very nice & balanced IPA.

Cluster’s Last Stand: I liked this beer. It is hop forward with the malt very much playing second fiddle (just enough malt to provide a semblance of balance but not being perceptible per se initially).

In comparison, the Ballantine IPA has a bigger hop aroma. It also has a more complex hop profile.

I have never tasted a ‘back in the day’ Ballantine IPA so I really can’t comment as to whether any of these two beers represent an ‘authentic’ Ballantine IPA. Frankly I am not too concerned about this matter. They were both well executed beers and I enjoyed drinking them both.

P.S. My wife expressed a preference in Cluster’s Last Stand. If I had to choose one vs. the other my personal preference is Ballantine IPA.

 

Yeah, but would you feel the same way if they were two supposed "authentic CAP's" you were comparing.

 

Thanks to all who've done and reported their taste testing comparisons. Lots of useful information in this thread and quite interesting to read. Wish all the beer X vs. beer Y threads could be this useful/interesting.