Is German beer really THAT good?

I had the pleasure to drink earlier this evening Victory Gose at the Victory Brewpub; boy, that beer was very tasty!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers!

P.S. I also had the Zeltbier (Pale Oktoberfest) and Braumeister Pils; they were very tasty as well!!

 

Pretty much where I stand too.

Even the 6 month old German examples on shelves are better than the freshest American attempts of those styles, in my opinion. But, in a way, it isn't fair. Those German beers were developed over a long time, and the best of the best are just simply in another league compared to American rookies trying to make the same styles.

 

I think we're on the same page with a lot of this. I'd just add that many of us find ourselves in the comparison threads because there's quite a few BAs who do make it and they are comparing U.S. versions of the German styles to the exemplars from Germany. And, yes, with a straight face many think that the American ones are just as good (often from people who admittedly have never been to Germany). I don't see the futile attempts of saying German pils is better than American pale ale, for example. I think this issue really doubles as one about American beer homerism.

 

German beers really ARE that good, and that they can get such pleasing flavors with a basic palette of ingredients is testament to that. American beers are world class too, at least those hailing from the craft/micro sectors. I'd propose that this American expertise has less to do with a broader palette of ingredients and more to do with the passion that makes American brewers seek to emulate brewing history, even as they also seek to push boundaries. You want my honest opinion? American craft is the best beer ... Because American brewers were smart enough to build on a solid historical basis.

 

That's like saying a beautifully made margherita pizza is "boring". Some things don't need extra pizazz, and many German beers are perfect as is.

Funny how people want to jump to crazy ingredients before mastering the basic 4. I'm almost always more impressed and excited by a well crafted Bitter or Pils than I am of some humongous stout aged in a bourbon barrel.

 

My first trip there I was unimpressed (but also not knowledgable). My second trip a few weeks later (it's been a good year), I started to understand the mind set and could start to appreciate the standouts. It's the craftsmanship not the flash and you can get it out of vending machines.

 

I love your thinking, and I've brought up a similar example in other threads. I think the Margherita pizza point is a good one, especially for those who dismiss it as boring and instead prefer something like the more innovative BBQ Chicken pizza which is bigger, bolder, etc. San Marzano? Tipo 00 flour? Pfffft... MORE BBQ BABY. And the less respected ones really transform 'innovative' into pure 'gimmick', like Pizza Hut's countless ways of trying to stuff cheese into the crust. I think the beer analogies ought to be clear.

 

Really interesting articles - I'd definitely encourage folks to read them. Maybe it doesn't make us American heathens to claim that yeah, German beers are good ... but for the most part they're not exciting. The one on the origins and uselessness of the reinheitsgebot was definitely interesting.

 

To the OP, yes it is really that good. But so is US beer. 3 1/2 months is plenty of time to try the best there is to offer, but you need to know where to look. I could spend this amount of time in certain cities in the US and never see Hill Farmstead, drain a Heady Topper, or visit Russian River. This doesn't mean US craft beer isn't THAT good.

 

@StoneGreg have you had a chance to visit Bamburg on your visits to Germany? Love to hear your opinions and experiences if you have. Thanks

 

Replace Berliner Weisse and Gose with Helles and Koelsch and it's a different story. I'd also be hard pressed to find hoppy beer in Germany as good as those coming from Stone.

There's great beer in both countries, and both countries also do not produce the best examples of every single style.

 

Yes, especially for kolsh and hefes.

 

Good lord, I'm drooling over here...

 

When I lived in Germany there seemed to be about the same percentage of abstainers, wine drinkers, beer drinkers, and spirit drinkers. The same amount of alcohol abusers too.

 

No, not yet. However I've had a number of beers from there, both the 'classics' and some of the smaller ones that don't normally get out much. I'm a big fan. Not that I've talked to everyone in Germany about them, but I've yet to encounter more than a tiny handful of Germans who like them, and like the average American, most wrinkle their nose at them. I'm sure in Bamburg that wouldn't be the case as the 'average' palate would be more acclimated to the styles of Bamburg. Dunno, but I'd bet that volumetrically most Bamburgers drink industrial pils though, which is the way of the world.

I do plan to go visit, as I've been looking forward to it for years.

 

They may not directly ship out of Germany themselves but their bottled beers are available here and in England. I'm a big fan of the Tannenzapfle.

 

Yes. Yes it is.

 

In my definition, an 'enthusiast' = someone who can talk relatively intelligently about breweries, beer styles, flavor profiles, etc., and is open to learning more about what they don't yet know.

You've been a member here since 2003, so you should know better than to tell someone like me what I'm "expecting." I've been around just a tad too long to have such a simple view. Hell, it's long enough that I've had more years as a beer enthusiast where the "crazy hop-head" animal was truly a rare sighting.

While an enthusiast might be a hop-head, a hop-head is not necessarily an enthusiast. It's quite possible to encounter hop-heads in the US with the same experiential and attitudinal range as the dogmatic Rheinheitsgebot flag-waiving German beer drinker: as in, exceedingly narrow and very dogmatic. They know quite little, are open to quite little, and are adamant that they know everything there is to know of any importance.

Actually, the German beer drinker of this type is worse. It is more likely that the American hop-head freak will know that there's a LOT more out there, that much of it is really awesome and worth their time, attention, appreciation and respect. They know that they're relatively new to all of this, and that it's a BIG world. Conversely, the dogmatic German beer drinker believes they have decades of experience, is quite certain that there is little knowledge to be gained by venturing out of the beer world that they know, other than the inevitable confirmation that all other beer from anywhere else is Scheiße!

The truth is, that likely *most* German beer drinkers recognize to some degree that most people drink cheap beer. What does a German bring when they're invited over to someones house in Germany for dinner? Why, a bottle of wine of course. Unless it was a backyard BBQ, or a house party, in which case you'd possibly bring a crate of major brand beer.

American beer drinkers look at Germany through a filtered lense. We see a myriad of classic styles, small regional breweries, a culture that celebrates beer, the birthplace of many classic styles (not their #1 selling beer style the pils though, as that came from Czech). All of those are TRUE.

However, the average German citizen knows little of any of that. They drink the local beer from their area, and traditionally they adamantly REFUSE to drink the beer from as close by as the next town over. At 30 minutes apart, Cologne and Düsseldorf are classic examples of this...expect an unpleasant reaction from locals if you order a Kölsch in Düsseldorf, or an altbier in Cologne! Now imagine that you ONLY drink the beer from your hometown breweries, and snidely refuse to drink anything else (well, save for industrial beer of course). Or, they drink industrial beer with the comfort of knowing it's "the best in the world because it's German" and leave it at that, switching brands every time they go to the store based on price, or not switching brands because you believe your brand is the best of the best.

Bottom line: It's complex. Dogma abounds. Closed mindedness abounds. The race to the bottom (cheap cheap cheap), consolidation and homogenization has been the order of business for decades.

If you're in America, you don't see this. You get the special brands. You visit and bounce from brewpub to brewpub and town to town. You have rose-colored lense view. I see ALL of those things that you see, AND I see the day-to-day reality. There's little choice without getting in your car and bouncing all over. There's little understanding. There's little passion other than regurgitating dogma.

All of the wonderful stuff in Germany exists, and it TRULY is wonderful. Just try to find it without a huge vacation-style budget in time and money for gas and airplane tickets, and you're pretty much outta luck. Not totally, but pretty much.

I encourage everyone to RESEARCH the industry. Read the German industry and financial magazines. They're in a world of hurt, brought on by themselves. There is sunshine on the horizon however, and tiny points of light all over...some from flames that have refused to be extinguished over the last many decades. Some of you guys see those tiny points, and believe you are seeing Germany as a whole. Idealistic. I wish it was true.

Best to all. Time to get on to my day. Much to do here.

 

Earlier this summer while at De Struise I overheard some Americans so I mosey on over to shoot the breeze. Turns out the guy lives in Germany and was picking up a crate of Black Albert and whatnot to take back home. He was based in the land of Bitburger pils though so I don't know if that taints the view but his father shared the same sentiment in regards to German beer. To them a lager is a lager is a lager. Bamberg is probably the best beer town in the world and I love it there. Tried to tell them about the variety and quality but it felt fruitless and I left for better company in Carlo.
To me they embody the popular American craft beer mindset from what I see here and in meeting others at bars or tastings. The best way to experience and respect German beer is to travel the country. So yes, German beer is that good. It might just require a bit of legwork to figure that out.

 

You do realize that Berlin has almost as residents from different nationalities as New York as does London for istance? Amsterdam appears to has the most different nationalities living in it, in the world. My point being European cities are just as culturally diverse as major American cities.