Is German beer really THAT good?

More accurate! But still.

 

I'm sort of struck by how the way of thinking in the OP is the polar opposite of that dumb "give me cheap crappy beer" article from GQ recently. I respect both opinions, because hey, drink what you want. Personally, I agree with neither, and both come off as a little willfully ignorant.

 

I should have known better than to have posted an answer on the night before a long weekend away (for the most part) from the internet, maybe I'll address more later...

I wasn't really "telling" you anything, merely speculating at your perspective of a German "beer enthusiast," which is far different from the typical U.S. beer enthusiast, hop-head or otherwise.

Finding someone in Germany who can talk intelligently about beer isn't that difficult, though it might be a different conversation than talking to that guy at the bar in a brew-pub. It's like I said, the typical German isn't all geeked out at the latest trend in coffee stout or double imperial session IPA. But they will tell you about allegiances to their favorite brewery and that brewery's best beer.

My speculation is that maybe you haven't been around Germany long enough to have formed a complete view of the German beer drinker. As has been pointed out, Berlin is far more diverse than the rest of Germany, so Stone beers may do well there. But I know a lot of Germans who aren't looking for a smoked Porter with chipotle peppers, let alone another American beer that's supposed to be the latest trend.

 

I think that the Ron Pattinson blog entitled "The Trouble with German Beer" is very telling.

Thank you for those links!

Cheers!

 

How about a friendly wager? I'll bet @StoneGreg (or anyone on here) a crate of the Bamberg beer of their choice (vs. a case of their local craft beer) that in the next 5-10 years we'll see a higher percentage of U.S.-style "craft" beer breweries closing than traditional German ones.

 

“I'll bet @StoneGreg (or anyone on here) a crate of the Bamberg beer of their choice (vs. a case of their local craft beer) that in the next 5-10 years we'll see a higher percentage of U.S.-style "craft" beer breweries closing than traditional German ones.”

Hmmm, an interesting bet. Given that the ‘weakest’ of the German traditional breweries have already closed (which means that the ones that exist today are stronger) and that the “U.S.-style “craft” beer breweries” will be start-up businesses that is likely to be a safe bet.

There is a rule of thumb in the US that the vast majority of new businesses fail within the first 5 years of operation (regardless of type of business).

I am willing to bet that Mr. Herrburgess wins his bet. He is smarter than the average bear!

Cheers!

 

Of course the bet is tongue-in-cheek. But I think it does reveal some serious underlying (false) assumptions: foremost, the almost unbridled optimism about U.S. "craft" brewing as the model for certain future success; and, second, that German beer is on its last legs and close to death.

 

I like 'em.

 

I cannot believe the arrogance of that Stone bastard!!

 

“But I think it does reveal some serious underlying (false) assumptions: foremost, the almost unbridled optimism about U.S. "craft" brewing as the model for certain future success; and, second, that German beer is on its last legs and close to death.”

When it comes to market assessments and ‘predictions’ I will not claim to know what is truth vs. “false”.

“…the almost unbridled optimism about U.S. "craft" brewing as the model for certain future success…” I personally would not characterize the discussion of a craft beer movement in Germany as being “unbridled optimism”. It seems to me that a lot of BA posters fully recognize the challenges of the German beer market as regards a craft beer movement. They recognize that German consumers are typically staid and conservative when it comes to accepting new products. They also recognize that the overall beer market is contracting so this aspect is challenging to all German breweries, craft and traditional alike.

I also suggest that maybe the adjective of U.S. in “U.S. “craft” brewing” may not be entirely appropriate here. It is my guess that the German brewers will brew non-traditional beers in their own individual and unique ways. For example, Pax Brau brews a number of hoppy beers where they use German Malts such a Munich Malt in those beers. In past threads I have suggested the name of German IPA for those sorts of beers. IMO, this naming structure recognizes that German breweries have their own vision on how to brew non-traditional German beers.

As to “that German beer is on its last legs and close to death.” Given the decrease of beer consumption on a per capita basis over the past few decades and the large number of traditional breweries that have closed there is no doubt that the German beer market is challenging. While I agree that the extreme concept of “last legs” and “close to death” is untrue for the overall German beer market those concepts are true for some (many?) of the small, rural breweries. It would be unwise to recognize that German breweries that have been open for a long time (perhaps several centuries) will indeed be closing. For those traditional breweries that have not closed yet, there is a need for them to operate smartly if they have any hope to survive in the near future. It does not help their cause that the folks who have historically supported them are getting older (and will die) while the younger folks seem to have a taste for beverages other than the ‘old man’ beers of their parents/grandparents.

Cheers!

 

The thing is, many German brewers are seeing young people return to the traditional places. See, for example, this video from the head brewer at Mahr's upon winning the Stammtischbruder Award, for successfully cultivating tradition and bringing young people back to their beer roots: http://www.br.de/mediathek/video/sendungen/abendschau/stammtisch-stammtischbruder-100.html#&time

Problem is, more media attention (both here and in Germany) is paid to people dropping boulders onto bottles from a forklift than to such traditional things (except maybe in Bayern).

 

Not to worry then. With the ongoing decline of journalism (as opposed to on-air reading skills and good looks) the media attention span is quite short and easily captured by anything that comes with a video attached.

 

Good one. I like that. Only thing is, I wouldn't bet against you on that. A lot of traditional German brewers 1) have already proven themselves capable of surviving some very very tough times, thus the stronger ones are the ones currently left, 2) the ones that aren't so strong in their traditional portfolios may start to shift their styles.

At any rate, the current "irrational exuberance" in the US can't go on forever, and I dare say we may see the truth of the adage that what goes up must come down.

What the heck, I will take the bet. I like Bamburg beer. I wouldn't mind winning a case of that, or if I have to, making good on the bet with a case of my locally brewed craft beer (which I can get at a pretty good price). ;-]-=

 

"...with a case of my locally brewed craft beer (which I can get at a pretty good price). ;-]-="

LOL!

Cheers!

 

LOL! Too funny. The media only paid passing attention to it. By FAR the most attention came from the American peanut gallery in forums and comment sections. Heck, the German media barely gave it a sentence or two in their articles on the announcement. Some German commenters scorned, most shrugged. There was a near-deafening roar from the American apologists however.

 

Stammtischbruder Award -- I like that!

I have two friends, brothers originally from Stuttgart, who worked summers for my old company some years ago. One is back in Germany after graduating university, the other is in England for his job.

While they may not be the typical German youth demographic for these times, they aren't old farts like me either, and they love German beer -- Weizen for one, aforementioned Tannenzäpfle for another. I would bring them different micros to try and they almost always fell back on the imports they could get over here. I took them to an old local haunt that had Hacker-Pschorr Weizen on draft and I swear they wrote me into their wills and their parents'.

So painting all German beer drinkers with the same brush is like painting all U.S. beer drinkers likewise.

 

German beer really is that good. Comparing some of their subtle delicate styles such as Helles and German Pilsner to BBA beers with maple syrup and coconut to those beers is apples to oranges.

 

Agreed, and I can go to my local beer stores and purchase apples when I am in the mood for apples and oranges when I am in the mood for oranges.

@DieHippieDie is now residing in Germany. He has several choices of apples to buy but no oranges are available to him.

Cheers!

 

German beers lose a little mojo after being imported to the USA but they're still excellent.

Easily the most sublime beer experiences I've ever had have been with Bavarian friends drinking local beers of amazing quality. Fresh Weissbier, Weizenbock, Doppelbock, etc. Damn.

Over there, at least the Bavarians I was with, never ask for a beer by a specific brand when they're in a bar or restaurant, they just asked for a Weissbier, a bock, a pils etc. They really didn't seem to care, nor did they ever geek out about beer. Beer just "is". All I know is I loved their attitude and I was happy to be able to hang out with them. It might be different in the bigger cities, as I mostly travelled in small Bavarian towns and Munich.

 

Who says I don't care for American craft beer? If you read what I wrote, I'm referring to the 90+% of American beers that are the "fizzy yellow beers" you personally hate. Craft beer is still only 6-8% of the US beer market at best. In many areas it's even less.
The Reinheitsgebot kept those beers from even existing in Germany. Are beers like Oettinger or Beck's awesome? NO. Are they awesome compared to Bud Light? I believe so. I'll take a TV pils over 90% of American beer and I bet you would, too. At least they aren't watered down and laden with adjuncts.
Does the average beer geek know more than a typical German? Certainly. However with only 6-8% of US sales going to craft beer...how many geeks ARE there? I bet the local average Joe German's beers of choice and knowledge of them are much better than all but the geeks.

You're talking craft and geeks - I'm talking about the other 90+%.