The Problem with American Craft

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by JackRWatkins, Nov 18, 2014.

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  1. LuskusDelph

    LuskusDelph Initiate (0) May 1, 2008 New Jersey

    ...and more seem to be opening every week.
    There is a certain sameness about a lot of craft brews. Much of the new stuff coming out (especially in the 'boom' of the last couple of years) tastes a bit amateurish to me.
    No matter. For the most part, the strong will survive and the rest will mercifully go back to homebrewing (from whence many of them came, and where a good number of them really belong).
    (to clarify: I'm not dissing homebrewing. Not at all. I love well made homebrew)
     
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  2. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,157) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    In Memoriam Pooh-Bah Trader

    Reminds me of a complaint I overheard at a shoe store from a customer who complained the shoes he was trying on were too comfortable.

    I agree local breweries, indeed all breweries, are driven by demand. Only success determines the quality and desirability of beer. Or anything. And there is not a brewer in the world who at one time didn't make worse beer than he/she makes now.

    Some will lose, some will win, in the meantime it sure is fun to have the problem of too fucking many beers to choose from, too many great ones to drink and not enough time to do it. Oh, if all my problems could be of an equal nature I would never say a word of complaint again.
     
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  3. JackRWatkins

    JackRWatkins Maven (1,472) Nov 3, 2014 Georgia
    Trader

    tell that to the people making substandard, painful and unrewarding IPA's, you don't have to enlighten us here, we all drank the coolaid about hop flavors and hop character, but the reality is there are far too many people out there valuing pain as a measure of manlineness over flavor
     
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  4. GregJ

    GregJ Pundit (855) Sep 24, 2014 Louisiana

    This is the nature of capitalism, popular trends (ie craft beer) will always be exploited for profit. Whether it be mediocre start-ups just looking to make a buck or one of the beer giants putting out craft beer under a different name to take back market share. Fortunately, another facet of capitalism is that your money is your voice. When the market truly becomes saturated not all breweries will survive as the profit margins will be a lot tighter. Those that have a great product and are run well will emerge victorious.

    Furthermore, competition breeds innovation. Do you want to live in a place where poor quality beer thrives because it is the only beer around? This competition combined with American creativity has led to one of the best craft beer countries in the world.
     
  5. BeerDrinkersWorldTour

    BeerDrinkersWorldTour Initiate (0) Sep 3, 2014 Northern Ireland

    This may be true of the craft beers that make it to export for the American market. Which stands to reason really if you think about it... See if you guys like a certain style then there is a market for it with you so we export our beers in that camp to you...
    I would however contest that the vast majority of the European craft market is in fact trying to return to older styles and methods used in Europe 100+ years ago.

    Of all the craft fodder I have come across (and I am talking real craft here not macro imitations of craft) really very few were trying to be American.

    Sometimes this can be a problem here, as I personally would like to try more American styles and the American craft scene is not really making huge in roads to the UK so many America IPAs I have had I fear are poor imitations of the best you have to offer... :slight_frown:
     
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  6. MisSigsFan

    MisSigsFan Initiate (0) Mar 2, 2013 California

    I'm starting to see way less IPAs that are focusing on just being ridiculously bitter. It seems to me IPAs are becoming way more balanced. The "palate wrecking" DIPAs are becoming a thing of the past.
     
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  7. Brewndruid

    Brewndruid Initiate (0) Jul 9, 2013 North Carolina

    I am not a big fan of highly hopped, high ABV monster beers, just not my thing. However, I can't deny the right of others to drink these beasts. My other dilemna is how to fairly rate these big guns. Just because I don't like them doesn't make them bad beers I try to stay objective by just going by BJCP or GABF guidelines. I wonder if there isn't a big fad or trend push in te industry driven by Cali beers, it's seen as the Mecca of Craft beer and if it's like there then there must be something wrong with us, rest of the country, if we don't like it. I call it the Lemming Syndrome. If you take a look at the "top" lists you see double this or triple Imperial that! I am waiting to see push back from well made session ales. In my mind, session ales make more sense all the way around! YOMV
     
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  8. southdenverhoo

    southdenverhoo Pooh-Bah (1,567) Aug 13, 2004 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah

    Orval makes one beer for sale to the public. Well, two, if you count the "petit Orval you can get at the brewery cafe, and I guess 3 if you count Villeille Orval, which is just Orval that's been aged in the bottle for at least one year, but sold at the brewery cafe for a slightly higher price.

    Does Orval need to be able to "execute every style well"? I do not think so. By the same token, must every new brewery opening in the US need to put out a blonde, a pale, a brown, an IPA, a DIPA, an irish red or American amber, a porter, a stout, and an RIS, to go with a Belgian style or two and the inevitable "Kolsch"? And if they do lagers, a pre-prohibition American pils, a Czech Pils. a Bo-pils, a helles, a marzen, a vienna lager, a doppelbock, and a weizendoppelbock. I really don't think so, but every new brewer, and I guess you too, seem to feel that way.

    I'd like to see fewer SKUs and more excellence...

    (Edited to override the auto-correct which changed marzen to mermen, of all things)
     
    #168 southdenverhoo, Nov 18, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
  9. LeeMarvin

    LeeMarvin Zealot (630) Jan 15, 2005 Massachusetts

    I think it's great that there is concern for the state of American Craft Beer, because beer has become very hip and cool and it's always good to be skeptical about anything that gets adopted by the fad seekers. Lots of things get ruined by being popular, so I have no problem with the sentiment.

    But man, it is such a good time to be a beer drinker in the United States. Without the shit beers, it would be too easy to find the gems, and what the hell would all of us beer geeks have to talk about when we come together in the holy communions of beer shares, beer fests and bar rooms!
     
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  10. breadwinner

    breadwinner Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2014 California

    Totally what I've been noticing lately. I understand why, as they're certainly more approachable. To be honest, though, I'm not sure I'm completely on board with every new IPA smelling and tasting like a mildly astringent Dole fruit cup. I can't remember which BA member said this, as I really wish I could give them props, but they basically called Citra the autotune of hops. Made me laugh and nod in agreement. Just because you pack an IPA full of Citra and make it taste like a fruit cup doesn't automatically make it a good, drinkable IPA. Give me the classic citrus/pine of Stone IPA any day.
     
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  11. mntlover

    mntlover Pooh-Bah (2,304) Jun 30, 2003 Tennessee
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Sadly we had brewery just open in our town, great place to go hear some good music. Sadly think the beer is average at best and that is being kind. Lots of people seem to enjoy it, so hope they make it just will not be going there to have beer. But we have a brewery in the next town over that also has good music and makes some damn tasty beers and isn't afraid to try something off the wall. Guess who gets my business.
     
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  12. JackRWatkins

    JackRWatkins Maven (1,472) Nov 3, 2014 Georgia
    Trader

    while I agree with this, Orval is in fact Orval, not subject to the same needs or even goals of a traditional brewery in addition to being in a whole other league from most anyway, Orval and trappist breweries in general are kind of in a seperate situation, that being said though, I do agree with you
     
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  13. southdenverhoo

    southdenverhoo Pooh-Bah (1,567) Aug 13, 2004 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah

    It may interest you to know that one of our newest breweries here in Denver is named Locavore Brew Works...their philosophy, here: http://www.locavorebeerworks.com/about/
     
  14. THANAT0PSIS

    THANAT0PSIS Pooh-Bah (2,275) Aug 3, 2010 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Citra's washed up. It's all about those NZ hops these days. Mo' tropical, mo' betta. :wink:

    In seriousness, I think there's a place for both. I love me a good, classic pine-heavy Magnum- or Centennial-forward IPA (though not Founders Centennial IPA) like Torpedo or Two-Hearted just as much as I love the blueberry and citrus bomb or the straight orange, grapefruit, and mango smoothie that is the Mosaic in Yellow Rose and the Citra in King Sue, respectively.

    Citrus Showdown 2014, as with the IBU Wars of the early '10s before it, too shall pass to the annals of vogue come and gone.
     
    #174 THANAT0PSIS, Nov 18, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
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  15. TongoRad

    TongoRad Grand Pooh-Bah (3,884) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Excellent line about autotune- I can definitely see where he's coming from.

    Part of the reason I brought that up is that I have been craving some old school style stuff, too. Unfortunately, I can never find Union Jack fresh, but Stone will definitely do in a pinch.

    In the end, I do like the new styles, too, but that doesn't mean I want the older ones to go away- whether that means with IPAs, or even other styles like Stouts/Porters, various lagers, etc- I enjoy having access to it all.
     
  16. FutureJack

    FutureJack Initiate (0) Oct 30, 2007 California


    One of my favorite American pilsners. And this is all they make.



    [​IMG]
     
  17. JackRWatkins

    JackRWatkins Maven (1,472) Nov 3, 2014 Georgia
    Trader

    that ones new to me, where's it from?
     
  18. FutureJack

    FutureJack Initiate (0) Oct 30, 2007 California


    Berkeley, CA
     
  19. HuskyHawk

    HuskyHawk Initiate (0) Jun 5, 2014 Massachusetts

    OK, I get this in AZ, or Alabama, but for some of us, we already have exactly what you want. Honestly, I don't buy much of anything from Stone because my local stuff is definitely better, or FW, because it is rarely fresh or Ballast Point because it is too expensive. Victory? Victory is pretty average in my mind, though they make some solid beers and Dirt Wolf is excellent. I am never going to choose Founders Centennial over Long Trail Limbo or Wormtown Be Hoppy or Jack's Abby Hoponious Union. And that's just local shelf beer, there is other stuff that is better still (Treehouse, Trillium).

    I have more freaking astonishingly good beer available to me on shelves at this moment than I could ever have hoped for. It's amazing really. And it just keeps improving. Are there some "just ok" beers, sure...who cares? Even those are good compared to what I could get 15 years ago. In a world where I can go buy Jack's Abby Kiwi Rising right now for $4.75, I have nothing to complain about. Nothing.
     
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  20. breadwinner

    breadwinner Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2014 California

    Indeed, gents. I dig having the fruity stuff available too -- the curmudgeonly part of me just likes to take shots at whatever's en vogue at the time:slight_smile:

    @TongoRad, though I don't tend to have issues finding fresh Union Jack, the news of cans in March 2015 of that/Easy Jack/Pivo makes me a happy man. Hoping some make it out your way.
     
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