Beers changing flavor after a few weeks

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by FFreak, Nov 21, 2014.

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  1. FFreak

    FFreak Savant (1,065) Nov 10, 2013 Vermont

    My last 3 or 4 batches have all been hop bombs. Each one was dry hopped, cold crashed to 50 degrees for two days, then bottled. All these beers have started out tasting wonderful. At 1-3 weeks they've all been close to commercial quality. After about 3-4 weeks the beers have all changed. The color gets darker, the hop aroma, dryness and freshness fades, and a similarity in flavor creeps in. This is a slightly sweet, slightly acrid taste. Overall the beers are still good, not at all drain pours, but have lost the quality that they displayed at first. What's going on?
     
  2. OddNotion

    OddNotion Pooh-Bah (1,915) Nov 1, 2009 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah

    Sounds like it may be the onset of oxidation to me. I have had similar experiences with some of my very hoppy beers as well.
     
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  3. FFreak

    FFreak Savant (1,065) Nov 10, 2013 Vermont

    Is that just something one has to expect with hoppy homebrewed beers, or is there something in my process that is causing the oxidation? Is bottling itself the culprit? Would kegging produce more longevity in hoppy beers?
     
  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Like @OddNotion posted, sounds like an oxidation problem here.

    Cheers!
     
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  5. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I am sure that some BAs would encourage you to keg instead but I bottle all of my beers (including the hoppy ones like IPAs) and I do not have the issues you are describing. It is important to minimize splashing and any other forms of introduction of air (oxygen) to the beer during the bottling process.

    My bottled homebrewed IPA beers typically last about 3 months. At the 3 month mark the beer is still drinkable but the hop aroma is diminished. There are no other flavor changes other then the hop aroma fade.

    I typically get 9 months of shelf-life for moderate gravity ales/lagers. For my higher gravity ales I obtain 1+ years of shelf-life. I have a couple of batches of high gravity ales that are 2 years old in my basement.

    Cheers!
     
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  6. FFreak

    FFreak Savant (1,065) Nov 10, 2013 Vermont

    Could the sheer volume of dry hops added post-fermentation be causing the oxidation? I've been adding from 4-6 oz of hops to the primary just after active fermentation dies down. I leave them for 4-5 days, then cold crash to 50 for two days, then bottle. I'm pretty careful not to oxidize during bottling, although I do use a fine-mesh bag during racking. I boil the bag for 15 minutes just prior to racking, so that should de-oxygenate the water while sterilizing the bag. Could the cold crash be sucking oxygen into the fermenter and causing the oxidation?
     
  7. sjverla

    sjverla Initiate (0) Dec 1, 2008 Massachusetts

    Yes, cold crashing could be sucking oxygen into the fermentor, especially if you're using buckets, which have a large surface are of beer coming in contact with the air. If you're using a carboy that's full to the neck it's less of an issue, but could still be one.

    When transferring, make sure all the hoses are well sealed and you don't get a constant stream of tiny bubbles flowing with the beer. What's your bottling process? Do you use a bottling wand?
     
  8. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    “Could the sheer volume of dry hops added post-fermentation be causing the oxidation?” Not a likely cause.

    “Could the cold crash be sucking oxygen into the fermenter and causing the oxidation?” I personally do not cold crash but that sounds like a distinct possibility to me.

    Cheers!
     
  9. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    When you introduce hops, you also introduce oxygen. When you're racking and bottling you also introduce oxygen. All the guidelines are to minimize this introduction...but there is no way to completely remove oxygen exposure.

    You can get pretty darn close when kegging and transferring under CO2, however.
     
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  10. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    To some degree yes. Kind of the driving force behind the Stone "Enjoy By" series :slight_smile:

    But of course your own process could be making it worse.
     
  11. FFreak

    FFreak Savant (1,065) Nov 10, 2013 Vermont

    I use an auto-siphon with a fine-mesh bag zip tied to the tube end to transfer the beer from a Big Mouth Bubbler to a bottling bucket, then bottle from the spigot with a bottling wand. I put the boiled and cooled priming sugar in after a quart or so of beer has transferred to the bucket, then after all the beer has transferred, I give a quick, gentle stir to get the priming sugar blended in evenly.
     
  12. alanforbeer

    alanforbeer Crusader (455) Jan 29, 2011 South Carolina

    You might try:

    Ferment in a bottling bucket. Bottle directly from primary via the spigot.

    Let the caps rest on the bottle for 15 min. or so before crimping. The idea being that CO2 escaping from solution will scrub out some of the O2 in the headspace. (Not so sure about this one.)

    The sad reality is bottled-homebrewed IPA's just don't have much of a shelf life.
     
  13. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2013 Minnesota

    Yes.

    ALL of my heavily dry-hopped beers have suffered faster oxidation than my non-dry-hopped. Personal experience, my hopbursted APA has no discernible hop loss after many weeks. However, my dry-hopped APA's and IPA have noticeable loss after 6 weeks (I keg), I have been able to stretch it out a bit farther by adding hops to an empty keg, and pressurizing with C02 for a few hours. This helps scrub much of the O2 from the hops.
     
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  14. ventura78

    ventura78 Pundit (972) Nov 22, 2003 Massachusetts

    I had the same problem when I brewed up a big batch of a pliny the elder clone. The massive hop flavor faded and the beer changed. It happened in the same time frame that yours did. The beer was still good, but a lot different. I guess that's why Russian River wants that beer to be consumed right away.
     
  15. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Alan, it is my practice to place the caps on the bottles and wait 30-60 minutes for crimping. I did this for my very first batch 20 years ago and I will be doing this later today for my 342nd batch. I have always had very good shelf-life for my bottled beers including my hoppy beers. Maybe this practice is indeed very effective?

    Cheers!

    Jack
     
  16. ronobvious2

    ronobvious2 Initiate (0) Aug 24, 2010 Tennessee

    Based on two of my failed beers, the color change and taste change probably indicate oxygen. It'll only get worse, trust me. How are you capping? Using EZ-Cap style bottles or regular beer bottles? If regular, see if you're getting those oxygen-scrubbing caps and you might want to invest in a bottling gun to flush out your bottles with CO2 before filling.
     
  17. sjverla

    sjverla Initiate (0) Dec 1, 2008 Massachusetts

    Pretty standard, as I assumed. The mesh bag is a common practice, so it's unlikely that's the culprit. Given the current facts, I'm inclined to look at cold crashing as the primary suspect.
     
  18. FFreak

    FFreak Savant (1,065) Nov 10, 2013 Vermont

    I've used both types of bottles, and the problem might be less with the EZ-Cap bottles. I tend to drink those first though, so might just be timing.

    I see the value in getting some CO2 equipment, but that's probably not going to happen any time soon. Meanwhile I've got another hoppy batch getting close to bottling time and need to figure out what to do to combat this.
     
  19. FFreak

    FFreak Savant (1,065) Nov 10, 2013 Vermont

    Interesting. I'll have to give this a try on the next batch. If the problem is from the O2 in the headspace, this might be a way to counter that.

    Thanks to all of you for the great responses. My breakdown of things to change in my process:

    1. More hopstand - less dry hop
    2. Avoid cold crash if possible
    3. Minimize splashing or anything else that would cause oxidation during bottling
    4. Leave caps on bottles for 30-60 minutes before crimping
    5. Drink beer faster
     
  20. jamescain

    jamescain Initiate (0) Jul 14, 2009 Texas

    The issue is that with bottling all bottles are full of O2.

    If you leave head space in your bottle you're leaving O2 in the beer.

    If you want your IPA's to last longer, kegging is necessary.
     
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