Is there a BIF FAQ? Cuz, I got some questions. Mostly, I want to know what is involved in hosting one. If y'all can point me towards a FAQ, or answer some questions, I'd appreciate it.
I'd be happy to answer some questions for you; I'm certainly not the most knowledgeable one around here but I'm certainly happy to do it. To my knowledge there's not really a thread or FAQ about running a BIF, but I can point you in the direction of participating in one if you need (though I doubt it).
I think I understand the basic ideas, just lacking on details, such as: setting ounce limits, time expectations for shipping, number of folks in the BIF, stuff like that. I'm thinking of starting one amongst a group of us who already "know" each other here on BA, so I'm not too worried about folks stiffing each other. Basically, how much work/many headaches are involved in being the host?
Ok, let's get started. So, ounce limits are, at least among the fairly large number of people I've BIF'd with, generally not taken very seriously. They are more closely adhered to in betting BIFs, but even then often not. More important is the theme of the BIF, be it a specific style (see: Stouts IV starting in the spring, or one of its previous iterations) or The Locals, which focuses on local offerings, or 12 Days of Xmas which is pretty self-explanatory. As long as you screen participants for previous BIF activity or a decent number of completed trades, it's not usually a big issue for people stiffing each other even if they don't know each other ahead of time. If you do want to allow newbies, same as trading: they ship first. Number of people can be anywhere from 2 to 200, but keep in mind that assigning targets is considerably more complicated the larger the group gets, but 40 or 50 is not uncommon. I've led 10-20 person BIFs (usually as part of someone else's betting BIF, but I do all the target assignments I just don't gather the group), at that size assigning targets took a couple hours, but I've heard from @Mikexw and @bevoduz that larger groups take a lot longer, especially if you want to be careful to avoid bordering states (common) or repeat targets (less so) or any other restrictions like that. It's a fair amount of work, but it's definitely rewarding.
Larger groups aren't necessarily that much more work (except that ba only lets you send a message every 30 seconds or maybe more, so some people start posting "target acquired" and freaking out the ones who haven't gotten theirs yet.). The difficult part of the one I ran was that besides avoiding bordering states and previous senders/targets, I tried to avoid having somebody receive from a state or bordering state to one they had received from in the past, and in some cases paired up guys based on styles or even based on untappd conversations I had seen. If you have participated in a BIF before, and tried to figure out all the sender/ target pairs, that methodology gives you a good start on running one. One negative is you don't get to experience the fun of figuring out pairings based on hints. Two positives ate that you get to be entertained by creative and amusing hints, and you get to choose your sender. And if you guys all "know" each other, set up an NBO thread and discuss timing and ounce limits, which are obviously negotiable, and go from there.
Thanks guys. Let me explain my thoughts, and then tell me what you think. Have you seen the New Beer Sunday thread? A couple of us thought it would be fun to do a BIF involving regular posters to that thread. We all kind of "know" each other already, so we're going to focus on getting folks local (to us) beers that our target hasn't had, thus giving folks new beer to talk about on NBS. We've decided to keep it small, at least for this first one, to find our way through, and see how it goes. We've decided on a 10 person cap (but, if the interest is there, maybe 12-15. 15 would be my hard cap), and a roughly 64oz limit. That allows growlers, and is equal to 3 22s, or 5 12s. So that would help shipping costs, and maybe if somebody hasn't traded before, it would be a lower-stress way to get into it. I'm thinking I would set the pairings chain-style (A ships to B ships to C...last person ships to A). Gonna aim at the rough idea of everyone shipping so that we can all post on the same Sunday. Thoughts? What am I missing? Thanks much.
That makes perfect sense -- I actually did the "chain" thing in the round of the locals I headed up, but that's obviously not a requirement. Imagine just taking a list of people from 1-12 and putting them on a clock, then everybody ships 1 spot clockwise (you could do any number of spots, but the only ones that give a complete chain would be 1, 5, 7, or 11). The only problem you will run into is prior senders or geographic proximity, but with that small a number of people it shouldn't be too bad.
You're missing the other 200 oz. If you guys are anything like the majority of us in BIF threads, that's a much more realistic volume. For perspective, in The Locals, we've done two "main" rounds where the volumes were in the 200-400 oz range, and to "take a break" we are doing our second "Sixer" round where the limit is 150oz, and this will still be ignored by some; and this round is specifically designed to be a "small" package. And it doesn't really "help" with shipping costs to do so little; a single growler would cost $10-12 to ship, but it's $20 to ship 6 or 8 bombers, roughly triple that volume. If you really want to limit it to only those already in the group, and that's where you're planning on sharing the hauls, you may be better off doing the entire thing within that thread. If you do want to open it up beyond that, then you'll get to 15 far faster than you think, and I recommend doing no less than 30. Especially if you're creating a chain, it shouldn't be too much more work to do 30 than 15, and it's a lot more fun that way. That said, I also understand the intimacy you're looking for, so it's your call.
Yeah, I was thinking of just keeping it within the NBS thread. I've never participated in a BIF, so this Sunday we'll do a post, and if one of the regulars wants to host, I'll happily let them. But, I'm willing to do it, just wanted to get an idea of what I'm getting into. Since the idea of NBS is try a beer you haven't had before, and post a review of it, most folks only post one or two beers a week, that's why I was thinking about the smaller ounce limit. Thanks for the advice guys, I'll let y'all know how it goes.
Very cute, but some of us are probably more degenerate than you'll ever be . Here's the thing that @beertunes was getting at, though- it's only one day a week, it's gotta be posted while you are drinking it, and it's focused on new beers (that you've never had before) only. So that kind of limits how many one person can post per week. The ounce limit is also important in my mind because we don't want this to be too intimidating to those who may not have shipped beer before. Packing up 4 beers just seems like it can be easier to pull off than a big box, especially to those we are trying to coax into participating. Y'all are most welcome to participate, though, and hopefully you might be inclined to join us in NBS in any event.
I'm glad for the invitation, because I was considering joining anyway. I'll have to abstain from the BIF you're doing though, which is a shame for my would-be target but it's something I need to do. On the plus side for me, I can be an active participant for about 2 years without acquiring a single beer I don't already own, let alone doing that BIF, so no problem there.
For what it's worth (and this probably isn't an issue if you guys know each other) is that the only real problem we had in the Locals was probably due to the boxes being too big -- one guy (who actually advocated a lower ounce limit) took an excessively long time to send, and then it was a subpar box, and I think it was all because he got in over his head and was overwhelmed. And while it's not a big deal in the overall scheme of things, shipping costs and packing time etc are an issue. I think in your case small boxes make sense for the concept you're working on; if all goes smoothly you can always do it again with a higher ounce limit. One thing @Lehighace06 mentioned above is about keeping it all in your thread; that's not a bad idea either, especially the first time through.
The one reason I caution against small ounce limits is that some people might send a large amount anyway, which might make people that "follow the rules" feel badly for underperforming. I say this not to continue to recommend the higher limit; with the reasons you've mentioned I'd do a small limit as well, but rather to encourage you to spell out very clearly the intentions of the BIF and that the expectations are to play by the rules and NOT crush porches, contrary to common practice. When that is clearly communicated I've found people are much better at sticking to the rules.
Yeah, I think everybody is right in this. Tongo and I have already shipped to each other, as I have with a few other NBS participants. Since NBS has a lot of regulars, and some of us have been posting on that thread for years, I think folks will follow the guidelines fairly well. I expect that some folks will be a little more generous than others, and that's OK. If you go back and scan through a couple of NBS threads, you'll see, despite a slight cluster of contributors in the Northeast, we're fairly well spread out, so it should make it easier for folks to find local brews that others haven't had. And yes, I'm kind of looking at this as a test run for a larger run later, if the interest is there. So here's where I'm at on this, feel free to add more thought and comments: I'm aiming at 10-12 people, but the interest might be there for more, I'll see what happens on Sunday. I think I'm going to host. I'm probably going to use geography(as much as practical) in deciding on who ships to who, just to make it easier to find something the target hasn't had (the focus of NBS). 64ish oz limit, that's 5-6 12s, 3 22s, 2 32oz growlers, and 1 full growler. I don't actually see folks sending growlers, but I'll leave the option there. I'm going to mention that, to keep it to a manageable number of participants (due to it being the a first time thing), that maybe everyone who wants in, won't get in, and don't take it personal if you don't. I'm going to pick a date that targets should receive their boxes by, so that we can all enter on the same NBS, but if someone ships a bit early or late, no biggie, don't stress about about. Going to encourage new traders, because we all "know" each other, they'll feel more comfortable. Anything I'm missing?
Generally that sounds like a great way to do it, especially if it's a test run for something bigger. If you get a ton of interest though, I wouldn't shut people out until you get to 30ish. Maybe explain it as "I'm looking for at least 10 to ensure sender/target pairs can be spread out" rather than "I'm capping it at 12". If signups die down at 10ish, then you're fine, but if it's going strong past 18 I see no reason to limit it. If it helps, I'd be happy to assist with target assignments; I won't have the perspective of who has shipped to whom or anything, but I can just go by state of residence and match everyone up. Lastly, and I know this is splitting hairs, unless you're recommending growlers, I'd refer to the limit as"66oz" to suggest 3 bombers, whereas 64oz sounds like you're recommending a 64oz growler or two 32oz growlers.
I knocked out a draft of my introductory post a little while ago, I can change language until Sunday. I'm not recommending growlers, but I've got to acknowledge they're a possibility. I think most folks will go with 5-6 12oz, or 3 22s, or a mix of those. We've got +/- 20 regulars who post every week, and probably about the same amount who post semi-regularly. Not everyone's gonna be interested, but I'm prepared to deal with a number bigger than I was originally aiming to work with. I'm probably gonna make most connections geographically, ie: CT>WA>GA>MA>WY>PA etc, unless a state is either physically large, or has a shit-ton of breweries.
Yeah I'm not saying prohibit growlers, just to 'suggest' bombers by using 66oz instead of 'suggesting' growlers by using 64oz; I see 66 and I instantly think of 3 bombers, if I see 64oz I think of a growler instead; either way you're nudging people in a direction, you might as well nudge them in the direction you want. Also, while it doesn't hurt, it isn't necessary to spread them out SO far geographically, WA to CO gives almost as many options as WA to PA, but shipping is a lot cheaper. If you aren't familiar with it, seekabrew.com is your friend; just note that it is a bit out of date.
I agree about not having to spread them out THAT far -- look at your geographicalldistribution, make sure the clustered ones don't ship to each other, and go from there. A guy in Colorado could get just as excited about California beers as a guy from Florida would, and it saves a lot of money that could be spent on "more important things" (i.e., beer). If you avoid neighboring states you should be good (although I live in NY, within an hour of both NJ and Connecticut, and there is plenty of stuff in those states I can't get my hands on without a ton of effort).
