BIF Discussion

everything I have done that required a phone number has gone smooth as silk

when I do trades I always text a pic of the beer as well i know it's different in a BIF but it's worked so far

sorry again dude

edit: starting to think I'm not the stalker

 

The 12 Days BIF that @bevoduz just ran did have someone called out as a bad trader before we got to the time window for sending boxes so we had someone else back out to even up the numbers. Other than that I haven't seen any issues in any of the BIF's that I have been in (6 so far). When you join a BIF that is open to newbies then I think that you need to know that there is a higher possibility that there could be issues including late boxes, subpar boxes or broken bottles. I've never run a BIF, and in all honesty, I don't want the responsibility due to my work so I will gladly join them but don't feel that I could effectively run one.
In regards to your specific questions:
How is the vetting process done? I know there are questions asked and it varies, but is there a standard? I don't believe that there is a standard but I'm sure those with more experience running BIF's are better than those that are running their first
Do you folks who run BIF's ever feel responsible when someone flakes out? I'm sure there are many that do feel responsible since it's their BIF.
Should you be? I don't think they should be responsible, although I see where you are coming from since they "vetted" the entrants
In essence, the folks who run the BIF do the vetting traders normally do themselves, and have no feedback in doing it for the BIF. Most BIF's require traders to have positive trade feedback to get involved in the BIF although, again, there are BIF's that allow trade/BIF newbies to join as well so those BIF's would be riskier

Should traders themselves also have a say in who can join a BIF? Essentially you do, based on your participation. If you don't trust someone that is in the BIF then don't participate or contact the person running the BIF to let them know that you don't want that person to be your sender or target. You can also let the person running the BIF know what your concerns are which may change whether that person is allowed to participate

How well do the people joining BIF's think they are being screened to enter? Too harshly? Not harshly enough? I honestly never considered this but I don't think I could say that the screening process has been too harsh for any of the BIF's that I've been in

 

We had issues in our Locals for Locals BIF, of all people it was with the OP.

@Mikexw personally had to get involved and push for resolvement (hence story behind his avatar)

Many in the group stepped up to help.

 

I can BM you with specifics (or we can meet in person to discuss it -- I live in the Hudson Valley!). But in the round of the Locals I ran, a few folks questioned whether we should let one guy in based on publicly available info -- I corresponded quite a bit with him, and was convinced he would come through (he did). But I also made him my personal target specifically for that reason, and while I didn't make him ship early I didn't ship until his shipment was delivered, worst case I could have sent to his target instead. Interestingly enough, he was the guy that caused the problem in the 12days BIF.

And FWIW, I saw a lot of parallels between him and the problem guy in the Locals. Again, I can discuss that with you, but don't want to be accused of profiling :-)/

I'm convinced most guys who do this don't enter the BIF planning on screwing anyone over, it just happens. I also think there is a difference between traders and BIFfers in a lot of cases, so limiting to experienced traders might actually take a lot of fun out of it.

 

I ran a biggest loser BIF last year and had two guys (out of maybe 12) flake out. I made sure everyone had at least a few trades or other bifs under their belt. I didn't screen to harshly because I really wanted it to be about losing weight and getting healthy and not keep people out for not having 10 trades or whatever.

Both guys had "life happen" and were going through money issues and shit. In my opinion this is more likely to happen in a bif like mine or Fantasy Football where boxes don't get sent out for a long time.

 

I commish a fantasy baseball and football league with guys here on BA. So more or less, all 12 of us are participating in a BIF-type system for nine months out of the year. At the end of this past baseball season someone flaked out on responsibility/communication (@lokieman, who deleted his BA account, changed his phone number, etc.)...and at this point was already playing in the football season with us. I tried to be on the ball about it (week 5 or 6? of football) but the guy wouldn't speak up even though he continued to edit his roster each week. It was very frustrating to know that this guy screwed not one, but two, really great BAs (@Damian74Shensky & @mj0126) out of huge boxes.

Because of this I will now have to have each member of these leagues send $50 (minimum box value) to a LeagueSafe.com-type website before the season starts. Basically insurance if they don't send their box at the end of the season. It really sucks that it has come to that but I can't see any other viable solution. I really enjoy playing in these leagues with this group of guys but hassling AWOLs and seeing rightful winners screwed over really chaps my ass.

 

I'd love to get in one, but they seem way to complicated for this guy. Plus, I don't even know how the heck you get in one. They remind me of a craps table in Vegas with so much action going on, seems confusing. Although, I do know how to play craps.

 

And you gotta admit once Ya know how to play craps, it could be very fun... I also don't know how to BIF but would love to learn how. Maybe a mini whaelz BIF?

 

Ah yes, it very well could be. Trust me, I named my dog Vegas for a reason .

 

I have done a couple of BIF's and have really enjoyed them, however, I absolutely think there needs to be a way to integrate them into the trading feedback system. Whether you rip off someone on an individual trade or in a BIF you are a bad trader. It would be much easier to identify bad traders from BIF's if feedback could be left to that effect.

 

Check out the amount of 'bad trader' threads and see how many of them are from 1:1 trades and how many are from BIF trades. I'm guessing its 10:1 with the guilty party being one on one trading.

 

The one BIF I was involved with allowed noobs, even without any previous BIFs or trades under my belt. I think it was arranged so that the inexperienced participants were matched up. It's been a while, but everything went off without a hitch and nobody got screwed over. I definitely thought about the risks of getting a bad trading partner, but fortunately this didn't happen. I really don't know how it could have been avoided if it did happen; the moderator had everyone's contact info but if someone really wants to be a dick, what can you do short of showing up at their residence? Maybe he did some background research on each participant? I'm not sure, but I believe he organizes them fairly regularly. Having some sort of BIF feedback system or somehow integrating it into the trading feedback would be a great idea.

Once I got it into my head to try it out, I simply looked for one that was starting up and allowed inexperienced traders such as myself to join. In this particular case, it couldn't really get much easier since it was Ship Whatever The F*ck You Want. I think the only rules were to hit a min. volume, include a piece of swag, and ship in a certain time frame. Super easy. Of course, there is a lot going on so you definitely need to pay attention. I can see how some guys get tripped up when "life happens" or they're involved with too many. Not an excuse, but it just serves as a reminder to not bite off more than you can chew. I had a ton of fun, and am looking to get into another at some point in the near future. It's a bit addictive...

 

BIFs is such a broad category. There are the competition BIFs (pick em leagues, fantasy football, etc.), the random sports league (NFL 33 club, MLB 1-13), and then the shotgun BIFs (stouts, can-cans, Noobs, etc.). I honestly don't think it's that uncommon to see the flakes in a BIF. In the shotgun BIFs in particular, when this is made known, the group typically puts together a series of boxes that really ends up benefiting the person who got shafted moreso than what they would have received. I've been in shotgun BIFs where I wished I got a bad trader as my sender because of who else is in the BIF and their respective history of "making things right."

If you're an active trader, you can certainly BIF. But you're just as (probably more) likely to get shafted in the ISO/FT forum than in a BIF. It's a risk you take. And fortunately, our happy little community is always willing to make things "right" by chipping in in the event you get screwed over.

I think BIFfing has been more about establishing good relationships for me. It's how I know great folks like @Dave_Treat, @heystevec, @Damian74Shensky, @hansenm72, @Syracuse12, @tommyguz and many, many more BAs.

 

@jshusc nailed it... I trade sparingly, and know that BIF's can also be a somewhat calculated risk, but the ones I usually join have a lot of familiar names in them, or names vouched for by familiar names... and a lot of those guys are mentioned right above! I've begun many good relationships this way, and even if it doesn't result directly in trading with those guys, I feel like the option is there. Great group gathered in the competition/random sports arena for sure!

 

One other thing worth mentioning is that if somebody DOES get stiffed by their sender in a BIF, I get the impression they make out better than anyone else because the whole community chips in to rectify the situation...

 

I agree here also, there is the benefit of a safety net in a BIF since usually the group will pitch in to make up for any bad traders who don't send a box. My concern is that bad traders are less frequently reported from BIF's since the person out the beer does end up receiving their box in the end from the group. Not sure if this is true or not but it feels like people that flake out in BIF's get more of a pass then being called out for bad traders. Again, no real way to know this until we can start tracking bad traders in BIF's through the feedback system.