Whippersnappers (Old Man Rant)

Again I used an extreme example, but I don't think it's unrealistic to describe a situation where a guy who has long been involved in the beer scene but never the trading scene has some white whale in his cellar he never realized. This kind of thing happens in the wine world all the time. But I am definitely happy to see you admit defeat. My work here is done.

 

There are many communities on this site outside the trading forums. Not every discussion about beer around here needs to be framed in terms of trade value.

 

Ah, ok. I thought for a short period of time we were able to lock our own ISO's which prevented others from commenting. Obviously I was wrong, maybe something to try though.

 

Yes it has, and i personally think people would just post nonsense to hit the required limit to then be able to trade, resulting in tons of reports. I think our time is better used elsewhere.

 

Of course they do, people click on them with the hope a shit show will ensue and provide some entertainment.

 

EXACTLY!!! The only pertanent comments in ISO/FT threads should be cost of bottle, release date(s), one-off, brewery release, shelf beer, limit per pp, etc. These comments are useful at least for me. These bring value if the trader is unaware, not the "homerism" which is 95% of the other comments.

 

I agree with this in general, but it is more a case of an influx of folks with * mentality trying to take over. Since 2011 the win the trade mentality, beer trading analagous to commodities trading mentality, beer as a collectible status symbol not a delicious beverage mentality has steadily turned this community into one that now requires this discussion

 

Want my .02? No, tough luck.

If you can find these forums, create an account, and dive in - you can surely look up what you have and what you want. And I might be in the minority here, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to get ripped off when going $4$...regardless of what "profiteering" you lost out on.
FYI: the 30 day wait period actually helped/forced me to look around and read around a bit. FWIW


Secondly: YES, let's get rid of the "what's my bottle worth" stuff.

Why couldn't we simply have a thread (with maybe only 1 post) for each new release with all the necessary information on that beer. Beyond that, discerning value is all up to the beerholder.

For example:

"2014 Cycle DCB Dos value" (title)
$20 per bottle
22 ounce bomber
brewery-only release
6 bottles per person
1200 total bottles
sold out in 1 day.

Anything beyond this is unnecessary banter. Maybe even link the beer name to it's profile page here on BA, so you can easily look up ratings, etc.

 

I rarely initiate new trades, maybe a few a year. I have guys I've been flipping beers with for 3 years now or so, most of these are kinda loose trades, they like the ltd Nc BA Stouts that get released and I just send em, little is formal anymore. I keep an eye on the trade forum, but there's little there that interests me much anymore, it's a latest and greatest which I suppose in the way it's always been, I just seem to notice it more. I'd like to see more guys look for great locals, and I suppose with me being an ipa guy it's a bit easier in that regard. The forum is a commodities market, maximum return is the name of the game, but it is what it is, and I don't really care to play.

 

Maybe you've answered this already and I've just missed it, but what exactly is preventing you from BM'ing the Cable Car Kriek-holder in question and letting 'em know they can probably score a few more packs of Heady (if that's what their heart desires)?

This is aside from the fact that it's almost impossible to conceive a situation in which a person otherwise totally into beer, and who has navigated their way to a BeerAdvocate trade forum, has no idea that the Cable Car they hold is highly valued. We can argue about just how valued it is, but that sort of leads to my next point...

What I think is more likely, and what I'm hearing in your concerns, is a concern for marginal value. It's, "Well, Prop went 1:1 with Pulling Nails, but Pulling Nails went 1:1 with West Ashley, but Prop shouldn't go 1:1 with West Ashley, but without being able to comment on an ISO or post a value thread in the Help section, someone just might do that, and that's just wrong!" (Please excuse the fact that I'm sure that scenario is off anyway -- I don't trade nearly enough whales to know whether those examples are accurate). The point is that, in these scenarios, as long as people are happy, what does it matter if the marginal value may have been slightly "off"? What does it matter if they could've squeezed an extra "+" out of the deal?

 

Is that why you click on them? I click on them because I hope to learn something that will help me when it's my turn to post an ISO:FT, and I often do.

 

Yeah, that's why I click on them usually -- amusement. Or, at least I typically assume that the higher view threads are the ones that people are most shocked by and, therefore, wanted to investigate further.

 

A few other factors need to be considered, I think.

Most importantly:
Rating on BA.
- This should be pretty obvious.
Style of beer
- An IPA rated 4.7 isn't going to trade as high as a wild ale or BA Adjunct Stout rated 4.7. Is it a lager? Tough luck getting much trade value at all.
Brewer
- Is the brewery notorious for making awesome beer, or are they more hit or miss?
Trading forum interest
- Upon release did the trading forums get spammed half to death with ISOs, like Prop, or doesn't there seem to be many people looking for the beer? Demand is a huge factor.

This will be the most controversial, but...

Region where the beer was made.
- A brewery only release in Alabama, all else equal, will probably not trade as high as if it were released in California. Areas known for awesome beer production will be able to add trade value to their beer.

 

Thank you. I'm not sure why this is such a difficult concept for some.

 

If this were true then TG stuff wouldn't trade like it does. Brewery rep matters but the state they reside in means little.

 

I think these guys said it best. Whenever I see a trade thread with a lot of responses, I assume there's a shitshow going on in there, and check it for that purpose. Others likely do the same, and then suddenly those threads have a lot of views.

The comments on trade threads too often devolve into homerism and value inflating or deflating. Let me offer a (hypothetical) example: (my CA trade friends, please excuse me for using you in this example)

Say there is a thread with someone looking to trade DDG. Comments are made on how DDG is not really "rare", to which CA traders and others looking to protect their investment respond angrily, pointing out that yes, while there were 8000 bottles of DDG and it was 6 per person, bottle counts don't really matter in terms of determining rarity, and this bottle should rightly still command multiple 1-per, brewery only releases.

A few days later, someone puts up an offer looking to trade Kiwi Herman. Again, someone questions the rarity of this beer and whether it should trade so high, and once again CA traders come to the rescue of this beer, protecting its trade value by arguing that in this case, bottle counts DO matter, and so this beer deserves to trade for the most limited of beers.

At first blush, those LOOK LIKE useful comments, but in fact they are nothing more than comments meant to either inflate or deflate the trade value of certain beers. Sometimes, people even make comments like that without having TRIED the beer. Most comments have a secondary purpose, which supercedes their seeming intent, and this becomes the major issue.

I'd rather comments be done away with in FT:ISO, and "whats the value of......?" threads be done away with in the discussion tread. Totally one persons opinion, but after enough years on this site, this is where I'm at right now.

 

At the end of the day beer is not a commodity. It's worth whatever you're willing to trade it for. The threadshitting and posturing only make the situation worse. Disable comments IMO.

 

I find these comments useful as well and got some yesterday in a ISO/FT I posted in:

http://www.beeradvocate.com/communi...oo-papi-ft-jackie-os-box.255077/#post-3260073

In this instance I would have never got this info had comments been disabled seeing as how it wasn't the OP that ended up providing some useful information.

Question is how do you eliminate the junk but keep the good info? Is it worth eliminating the small amount of good info to get rid of the thread shitting? I personally don't mind at all if someone shits on my thread...more comments and views usually mean more people are going to look at it. I think the option of letting the OP dictate whether or not comments may be made in their post is the way to go as some of us don't mind the comments whatever they may be.

 

Some of the thread shitting is because the trade forum is ridiculous right now. I can understand that certain beers trade above their cost, that makes sense to everyone, but some of the FT request are absurd. No single 12 oz beer that cost $15 should demand $250 in return, I don't care how hard it is to get.