Beer Event Etiquette ...

It is completely different. First off, again, let's separate nepotism from networking. If someone got a job via nepotism, then that's nepotism, and nobody is arguing that that is a good thing for anyone other than the person who got the job.

Back to networking. No - it isn't flawless. But the basic concept is that it is of value to all concerned. Let's say I run a company and I'm looking to hire into a new position. I interview two candidates, one of which was sent to me via a recruiting firm that I'm using, the other referred to by a trusted and capable employee. And for the sake of argument, let's say their resumes read almost identically, except that the unknown candidate has some additional piece of knowledge/experience/training that while not directly relevant to the role, could be beneficial to me. On the other hand though, I have the referred candidate, and according to my employee who is referring him, they worked together for six years, the guy had an excellent track record, and was highly regarded at the company they both worked at.

Is it not both understandable and reasonable that I hire the referred candidate? Yes on paper the unknown is marginally more qualified, but I likely have no way of verifying everything on his resume, whereas on the other hand I can be very confident that the referred guy will be a good fit, and that his resume is an accurate portrayal of his abilities.

Cutting in line at a beer event has no basis for comparison with getting a job via a strong professional network. The only beneficiary is the line cutter.

Comparisons to nepotism are fairer - except that at least with nepotism, the person doing the hiring (whether you like it or not) at least has the power to hire the person. The guy letting his buddy cut in line doesn't have the power - the people behind should feel empowered to tell them both to get the f**k out.

 

Really?

 

Good catch, at least one person is apparently reading what I wrote.

 

I don't really want to debate what is or isn't an analogy, but...

Analogy
a·nal·o·gy
əˈnaləjē/
noun
noun: analogy; plural noun: analogies
a comparison between two things, typically on the basis of their structure and for the purpose of explanation or clarification.

...bringing up nepotism, or getting a job through connections in a thread about getting a spot in line through connections is exactly that--an analogy.

Well, you did, but even if you hadn't, your opening sentence was a pretty fundamental description of the practice:

"Is it bad form when you get a job more easily because you have connections to people in firms?"

Edit: so that would be at least two people reading what you wrote, no?

I'd say, yes, for something like line cutting, shaming and criticizing is probably the best way to discourage the behavior. Seems a roughly equivalent level of response for the offense.

 

Your buddy joins a line @ a beerfest (say the line is 20 long). I can kind of live w that. Same guy is walking towards the bathroom and see someone he knows in the bathroom line (same length). He goes and joins him. That takes balls and would piss me off. No Pun intended.

 

The easy difference between networking and line cutting is networking is a tool for finding a place/opportunity that exists. Line cutting is making a new place/opportunity by usurping somebody else's already claimed place/opportunity and taking part of it by force to make one's own.

 

Cutting past the semantics. (I admit it, I was wrong)

Doesn't that run counter to the very specific concept of networking laid out here as practice where qualifications are taken into account? I never specified any of that. To be entirely honest, I was never aware that "networking" had such a specific meaning in the business world - from what I gathered I thought it just referred to "soft skills" or being good at socializing. Not that it was specific system of more efficient referrals in order to save time and costs.

I'd say there's a difference between criticism and shaming but hey. No qualms with criticism as an adequate measure. Just not socially ostracizing people as we were living in the 1800s.

 

I'd be more upset with someone cutting the line to get into the mens room

 

Instant. Gratification.

But...but, I WANT IT NOW!!!! Wahhhhhh

 

If you have to ask, then yes. You're obviously feeling some guilt in regards to your 'line cutting'. If you and your buddy wanted to wait in line together, he should have joined you at the back of the line. In the grand scheme of things, it probably wasn't a big deal in your situation but it's still a dick move to cut in line.

 

Hopefully I'm not going to spend too much of your time (or mine) continuing to fight for this comparison since I didn't make it in the first place; I still think it's a somewhat fair one, because I definitely think nepotism and networking are linked (unless you define "networking" to literally mean "linking up to get a job for which you are the most qualified candidate."). Networking being of value (to the employer) shouldn't come into to play here, because we're essentially discussing the people in line behind the cutter, which would be those candidates who didn't get the job. Whether a company is better off hiring the referred candidate doesn't make them feel better.

Regardless, I think we can both agree that cutting is wrong, and I think this topic has gotten way off track since the original post comparing the two admitted that cutting might not be fair.

 

I'm sorry, but dudes do that?

 

The people who were muttering about him cutting the line gave him a bit of a guilty complex so he wanted to make himself feel a little better about it.

 

Well, the "soft skills" are a part of networking to be sure. But that's a simple part of human interaction--if you are gregarious and outgoing and play well with others, you are going to have more opportunities to show that you have the knowledge base to do a given job well in many cases.

Very few actual hires are made without some of the "hard skills" being evaluated. The soft skills just get you in the door.

Perhaps there is a difference, but I think there is definitely some overlap. The whole idea of criticizing in this situation is to make people feel ashamed of their actions to the point that they won't do it next time. Whether or not they are shamed is dependent, in large part, on the person being criticized.

 

Yeah, I got that now. And it's certainly no new news that Western society in general favors outgoing or "extroverted" personality types if you will.

Probably, yeah. Both definitely have the same point in mind. I just think that criticism makes it more likely that someone will actually adhere to it. In that case, I guess I don't mind shaming as much if it comes with criticism. I guess I was thinking more of 'shaming' via flinging insults which I doubt will achieve much.

 

Whoa there, bucko. I know what nepotism means, and I do get where you're coming from.


But yeah, the important point is that it seems that there is a CONSENSUS (check out @Akerstache's avatar for some irony) throughout this thread that cutting is wrong. I'll admit I thought it would be a little hazier, but I think it's a really good point that 1 person cutting or 50, it's the same shit.

Now, back to the beer!

 

Haha this is the stupidest thread ever posted!

You cut.

/Thread

 

what the hell is happening right now

 

beer line = sequential

job interview = concurrent

sequential <> concurrent

 

Yeah, I really get you there. I think very limited releases have a different etiquette than everyday lines. But when there is plenty to go around, I don't think it is a big deal.

I'm mostly just appalled at the black and white nature people are taking to this. "No cuts. Ever." I really don't want to go to Six Flags with you as you yell "Get to the back of the line!" to children in wheelchairs.