We need to talk about auctions

I do agree with your post. When I see a post of ISO:XX FT: and a list of 30 beers I immediately think well here's an auction. I also hate cellar links for the same reason. I also feel that most of the time its a thinly veiled auction, but sometimes it's just pure laziness. However, whatever the reason it drives me crazy, if your interested in something post an exact offer for what you will trade for it, or at the most list three to four beers to choose from. I don't mind the posts that have choose one from list A and choose two from list B, I actually think that's a good way to offer some options for people, but 20+ beers drives me crazy. Is that though still an auction? Maybe, but at the very least can we get rid of cellar links and 30+ FT options.

 

Please excuse the inexperience in this reply but I am trying to learn the ropes and I sometimes post small lists or ask questions to find out what is reasonable in an effort to not aggravate anyone with an unrealistic FT offer, etc. I learn from members' replies about what is reasonable, not close, etc through the info in those posts. I understand how it is creating unnecessary, long reads for experienced people trying to quickly scan, but in the case of newer members, it is a learning curve. Thank you to everyone who takes the time to explain reasonable ratios, etc.

 

I agree with much of what you are saying but in the case of: "ISO: List FT: List"
-In which a large list of beers from shelf turds to white whales is included on both sides. Clearly, whoever offers the rarest beer and asks for the least is going to get the trade done.
I've done this a couple of times & I don't do it to auction beers off, I do it because I have a long list of beers to trade that I am hoping will catch someone's eye & I'm interested in trying a lot of new beers. In this age of feeling like every trade offer is FT:whale ISO:whale, a lot of people don't have that level of beer to offer & are doing whatever they can to try new beers outside of their distro. Obviously I can't speak for everyone but personally I take the offers as they come into my DM's so I've had situations where I traded a beer to the 1st responder & then the 3rd responder had a better offer but them's the breaks.
I'm not naive enough to think that what you've said is happening in the "ISO: List FT: List" doesn't ever happen, I'm just saying that seeing lists doesn't generally mean that the person is attempting to auction beers off. In the end it comes down to the ethics of the trader that is making the listing because we've heard stories of very specific ISO's that multiple people agreed to meet & that person instead would ask what else they could add to their offer

 

It's logical to generate a list of beers when I'm somewhat indifferent about a few of the beers being offered. I've got no problem with the list/list offerings.

 

I see both sides and am not particularly for or against lists but here is one argument in favor of lists because it has happened to me. I have posted a few beers I have and ISO: 2-3 specific beers. After a day or two, I reposted the same beers for trade but changed my ISO and my post was deleted for being too similar.

I understand the generally accepted frame of time for similar trades is somewhere around 3 days but I guess my definition of similar and the MOD's is different. That is fine but to avoid this in the future it would be better for me to think of every beer I want with the beers I'm offering and post it in a list format in one ISO. If I break it up specifically to a few beers at a time and don't get any interest for whatever reason then it may take a few weeks to complete a trade if I have to wait 3 days to post another set of specific beers I'm looking for.

 

I think if you're going to do that - you should give people an idea what you're thinking. I understand that you don't want to go through the exercise of listing out a thousand different trade permutations, but people should know within some small range what you're thinking.

OP, I agree with all your points and have both called people out for it and been guilty myself. as said above, I just try to be accurate enough so people have a good idea what I'm thinking. sometimes you do have a huge list of FT and ISO and it's not reasonable to come up with a thousand different scenarios, but people should have a strong idea what you're thinking.

 

Most of the trades are probably not auctioning and the non-specificity is because people want to have some flexibility in trade, this is OK. The problem is this leaves the door open for the commodity traders. These kind of traders will ultimately result in the non-commodity traders "not being allowed to have good things" anymore.

There is a big grey area here that can only be closed by VERY specific trades, FT : 4 Heady ISO : 2 PTE. This would make trading a lot less flexible and less fulfilling.

 

As much as I don't like the auction aspect of many posts, if you are one of three people replying to an ISO and one of the others offers up more beer or a bigger want, there really isn't anything you can do. It's the OP's beer to do with as they please.

That being said, if I make an offer of your ISO and you come back to me with "I've got another BA who offered up a bigger want. Do you want to add?" That kinda ticks me off. I will rarely change my offer. In fact, in one case I pulled it. When it obviously becomes an auction, it tells me that OP is looking to "win" a trade.

We could use more BAs who think "winning" a trade is being fair with the other BA and throwing in some kick ass extras. But the world isn't full of rainbows and lollipops.

That being said, while open auctions are not allowed, private ones don't seem to be policed. Unless there is a way for the mods to monitor all conversations (which sounds like a boatload of work), I don't see any other option other than a reporting system. If you can report a guy who is auctioning off bottles in private, the community could help the mods and report the offender. After that it may be up to the mods to call said person out on the trading boards if they confirm an auction is occurring. Public shaming. Same thing we do with bad traders.

 

The dual lists should give people an idea what I'm thinking, no? If someone doesn't like the way I've laid out a trade offer, they should just move on.

 

not if your lists are something like

FT:
BCBS
Dark Lord
Fou Foune
50n40e
KBBS

ISO:
Local IPA's
Assassin
Parabola
Ann

the idea behind having rules and guidelines is that forum clutter is reduced and the community wins by making beer trading easier. I think we've all got to do a bit better than "if you don't like my style, move on" b/c you are part of a community here.

 

There is a post up right now offering up a growler of PTY. They are requesting a possibility of 3 different beers, but no specific amounts. This may or may not be an auction, but you can be sure as hell that there is a behind the scenes auction going on via beer mails.

 

I don't mind this kind of list. If I have one of those ISOs and I want one of the FT's then open negotiation is just part of it. When that list is the basis of a bidding war is when I begin to have a problem.

 

Yep, exactly. There are hundreds of other posts like that, but given how rare a growler of PTY is, that post will be the ultimate auction.

 

And despite your attempt at self policing, it's clear that the moderators of the community are fine with list for list posts.

Honestly, it doesn't really matter. I could offer list half a dozen specific beers for a Stormaktsporter and would still get a series of messages offering random jester king and westbrook stuff.

While I'm sure it would be fun to continue this conversation, it's getting late and I've got to start prepping a couple lists for my next trade offer.

Cheers and have a great night.

 

I've been screaming this into the wind. I report examples. It seems like nobody listens.

 

And the sad thing is, instead of looking for 3 friends or local BAs to drink the PTY, first instinct is to put it on BA to see how much they can get for it!

 

I don't think specific ISO are less fulfilling, but I'm biased but that's how I try to,post every one of mine.

I know what I have and what it should trade for (at least in my mind, ha), and I know what I'm looking for. I can always expand the trade from there, there's no need to post a giant list for a giant list.

Think about what you're doing, focus on what the main trade is, and go from there.