Modem Times

One of the classic descriptions of diacetyl is the butter topping you get on movie theater popcorn, since diacetyl is what's used to make that buttery flavor. Obviously it's naturally occurring in beer as opposed to being an additive in popcorn topping, but that comparison tends to make it click for some people.

Also, some people are considerably more or less sensitive to it - if you don't pick up on it, consider yourself lucky.

 

You know... "buttery" -- or "diacetyl" if you wanna sound super highfalutin... it was like the BA Word of the Year in 2013 iirc.

Obviously, "entitled" won BA Word of the Year in 2014.

 

I had a 4-pack of Blazing World last fall that seemed to have some noticeable diacetyl. I felt like BW was a roller coaster for a while--dank one batch then malt bomb the next, but my last few have been delicious. I hope it stays consistent.

 

Naturally occurring in the sense that it's produced during a phase of the brewing process, sure. But, finding noticeable diacetyl in a beer is generally* a bad thing. Insufficient fermentation, temperature issues, yeast issues, etc. all can cause an excess amount of diacetyl. I've actually never noticed it in an MT brew, but reading some of the reviews for Blazing, for example, and some folks mention it.

*I say generally because there are some who don't seem to mind a tiny bit in ales. And even Pilsner Urquell is rumored to allow a bit of diacetyl to remain, as part of its "signature" taste. I can't taste in that particular brew myself, though I've picked it up in other brews before (notably a berliner weisse from Arizona Wilderness -- absolute butter bomb).

Yeah, it's funny that Blazing seems to be one where people notice it, and yet that remains my favorite brew from them, and I've never picked up on it there (though am able to pick it up in other brews). Go figure.

 

I didn't say it's at all desirable, I merely noted that it was naturally occurring. I didn't think anyone would mistake it for a desirable characteristic of a finished product, but maybe I was giving people too much credit.

 

Gotcha, I just wasn't clear from the way I first read it. And, in my experience...you're giving people too much credit

By the way, here's Stone's Mitch Steele on diacetyl, for those interested. I was recalling his story about a beer they made at a former employer that had obvious diacetyl that people still loved. That's the story that came to mind when I said you give people too much credit, @Xul, which he notes below.

 

Now I kinda want theater popcorn....

 

I am entirely certain that what you guys are describing is oxidation, not diacetyl. Diacetyl is almost always the result of improper fermentation (usually incorrect temperature or unhealthy yeast), and it would be evident from the moment the beer is packaged (unless it's the result of a secondary infection in the can--which would also create other off flavors, like sourness or funk or other things that would be at least as obvious as the buttery note). Obviously, several of us taste every batch we brew before it is packaged, and we would dump any batch that showed diacetyl. It's not happened yet.

What we have found is that oxidation in combination with fruity hops, especially Citra, smells somewhat similar to diacetyl. I have tasted this in some older cans of Fortunate Islands, and now Booming Rollers (I have noticed oxidation on older Blazing World cans as well, but the character is a little bit different). This makes sense since it takes some time for dissolved oxidation to react with the hops in the beer, which is why the effected cans (which is not all of them) taste great fresh, and then fade faster than they should. This also explains why Black House is not showing a "buttery" note with age, despite sharing yeast with Blazing & Fortunate.

Needless to say, improving this situation is our #1 priority, and we actually made significant progress yesterday. We are working with our canning line manufacturer and other breweries running the same canning line, and we have a strong plan of attack that we are implementing right now. I am confident we will get it entirely fixed shortly. I'll keep you all up to date.

Cheers & thanks,
Jacob McKean
Modern Times Beer

 

+1 I've bought probably 10- 4 packs of Blazing World since it came out, probably about 6 were amazing and it's my favorite beer on shelves, and 4 were just not very good, no Nelson hop punch to the face. My last 2 packs I've purchased have been perfect tho.

 

Any idea what the date is for the latest batch of Blazing World so I know to look? I called then rushed over to Bevmo last night to get Booming Rollers but it was the 2/18 batch so I didn't want to risk it. I have yet to try BR so I'm super eager to get a fresh batch.

 

According to their IG last night: "Two day old cans [of Booming Rollers] available right now at the Lomaland Fermentorium."

I'll be heading there after work to stock up. Doesn't get much fresher than that.

 

Yeah, I saw that last night but trying not to drive down to San Diego (live in OC) three weekends in a row if I can help it, ha!

 

Go get some of them gross Jelly Belly's...

 

Did you know that vomit flavored jelly belly's don't actually taste like vomit? The more you know...

 

Those are the most foul fucking things ever. Ugh.

 

B+? B*@&(*$ please....

I can confirm that (as a completely amateur compare to Jacob here). I had 2 bottles from the very recent batch of KRBC Citra that had similar notes. I was never sure if it was the beer or it was just me that day, but now, that would make sense.

 

I agree with you Jacob, it definitely tastes like premature oxidation. Looking forward to the fix.

 

Yes, but "diacetyl" sounds cooler to say than "oxidation".

 

everything is cooler when I can't pronounce it.

 

Off topic: Except when trying to order a beer at the Bruery.