The $4$ quandary

The torment of de Garde.

 

Just trade your de Gardre bottles to me, Michael. I've got your HF (among other things).

 

I have some Anna and Convivial, $4$ works for me. BM me,

 

I can seldom think of when $4$ has applied to non shelf HF Bottles. I think part of the reasoning w people wanting $4$ w de Garde is that they make so many damn bottles. I recall just last year that even in the Pacific De Garde thread all releases were kept hush hush becuase they were so rare or infrequent. But the growth and subsequent production has been staggering- so much so I don't even know what's what. But I don't live there, and to have an expectation for "shelf" De Garde to trade $4$ is one that I feel is warranted. A better description would probably be "desirability for desirability". Also it doesn't help that periodically "quantity" of de Garde comes up FT in single posts...

 

The "norm" is to do trades $4$. 95% or more of my trades have been $4$ over the years.

Once you start down the "well, geez, these bottles are so good the trading future are just too low, I'm going get what they're worth" you head down a slippery slope. IMHO, is what's led to the "stock market" mentality that's infected the trade boards like an '09 Abyssident. If that's how you roll, great, I'll stick to my side of the street.

 

I'm right there with you. Unless it's the other person offering it up on their side, which most of the time I try to add locals to get things closer to $4$, I keep my trades $4$ and trade similarly desired beers. The way I see it is unless the beer is way out their in trade command (DB Huna, BA Abraxas, KBBS, Assassin, etc.), I don't see a reason for not trying to go $4$. If there is a significant disparity in price, bottle for bottle and whoever has the significantly cheaper bottle adds some easy locals to get close to $4$.

 

When you've got $30-45 bottles from Lost Abbey and The Bruery, $20-30 bottles from Hill Farmstead and Side Project and $4-14 bottles from de Garde, I don't think $4$ always makes sense. I feel strongly about making up any difference in $ amounts with solid locals though.

More and more I've found myself having to explain, for example, that I won't trade 4 Imperial Bu's for a $40 Bruery bottle. Although, I do understand the perspective that someone can go to a de Garde release and come home with 8 different beers (limits from 1pp to unlimited), where someone might wait in line at Side Project for hours for one or two bottles of a single beer.

 

As they say, don't ascribe to malice what can be explained by just not being as engaged with BA as people in other parts of the country. Or something like that.

 

-no one ever

 

I'd bet that most of those trades don't get done and that speaks volumes. Someone lists a bunch of pseudo-shelf beers then asks for Biere Rose / Biere Noir / Biere Violet at $4$? It's not getting done.

The excuse that De Garde releases a lot of beers makes a bit of sense, but in some ways it's weak sauce. Isn't "doing your homework" supposed to be a pre-requisite of trading? Tableau Rouge is pretty awesome and it's a $4ish beer available at a handful of bottle shops. It's not trading for whales but, c'mon - $4$? 8:1 for Chocolate Rain?

And though De Garde is on the extreme end of the spectrum look at how many hoppy beers Trillium releases. LOTS of breweries are releasing more variety more often - a good thing imho. It's not as if HF releases are infrequent these days. You just get past Flora B/B and here comes CD11. Even SP is starting to ramp up. The flip side of traders wanting $4$ on all De Garde are the SP traders trying to trade Grisette and Lattice as if they're La Fosse. Also not getting done.

Basically saying "do your homework" on trades you offer and don't be surprised when absurd offers are met with silence.

 

Wait a minute... are you trying to get someone to make sense of beer trading equity?

 

I've never been able to land a de garde bu for three reasons:

1. I have not posted many ISO/FT when it comes to bu's
2. When I have discussed deals involving them, the bu side wants my beers (Huna, MBCP, Last Snow, Cycle, etc) to be considered at cost but is unwilling to even consider it on their side. I wasn't even after the 1pp limited stuff.
3. I'm new to sours and am working my way through a few of the 'closer to home' and easier to obtain options.

Reason 2/3 is mainly why reason 1 exists.

I've done plenty of great $4$ trades where both sides got rare beers and everyone was happy.

 

So, Funky Buddha Last Snow - $10 per. Wouldn't 1:1 for $8 - $10 bu be fair? Huna ... $20 each? 2 x $10 bu or 1 x $14 de garde (usually the $14 are more limited) + something local to make up $4$. Were people asking for something other than this? I'd think you'd get a deal that's close to $4$ done pretty easy. Or did you want more? This actually seems like a pretty easy one!

 

$4$ is perfect as rarity4rarity and desirability4desirability is also the same

some breweries like de garde and HF and The Alchemist are just much much cheaper than others (Bruery)

 

Or you're posting that because people think they are worth more than $4$ for "similar rarity" beers.
So it can go either way, but the poster is more likely not thinking what you suggest IMO.

What @anteater and @Kurmaraja said makes sense.

 

It may have been a 'right set of eyes' scenario but I just remember it being off by about $20 on the $4$ in their favor and they wouldn't add a 5th bottle to get it closer to even.

Since then I did a local IP trade for the regular Bu and Saison premier so I'll at least get to try those.

 

When I get that Pirate Bomb back from MI, I'll see if I've got any DG laying around to send to you.

I've been meaning to ask @Kurmaraja if he has any buddies left in the PNW that want stuff from my area now that he up and moved

 

@F2brewers Let's be mature adults about this, please. *I* had first dibs, dammit.

IF people feel cheated or slighted in a potential trade then they shouldn't make that trade. HOWEVER, there is nothing that entitles em to the sought after beers at terms they'd like to dictate as fair & reasonable. IF you are consistently unable to land beers you want then either offer more (or better) or accept the fact that you're unwilling/unable to pony up what it takes.

There is no one trade value for dG any more than there's a single value for HF, GI, SARA, TG. The less expensive, more abundant, dG fruit sours are ridiculously good. People are cheating themselves if they're only interested in the ultra limited releases. (I've been told their other stuff is also incredible but I'm happily stuck in a fruit rut.)

Trade value for dG is definitely increasing because there's been an explosion in demand. I'll take a tiny bit of credit for that as I've shared my dG far & wide and everyone who's had it has loved it. I'm sure that's equally true of the other dG junkies out there. (Do we need a support group?)

I think the New Glarus fruit beers are a ridiculous bargain & worth far more than $4$. This has me scowling a bit when I'm trading em but smiling happily when I'm drinking em so it evens out.

 

now, now @JavaNoire I *think* Michael and I did our first trade before your join date.

that said, if you want to trade, i'm open to iowa goodies too.

agreed with everytthing you've said here. to this point, those with dG have been very generous IMO and i love NG as well.

i'm pretty easy going in trades...but if any of you ever have questions during you negotiations, ask you potential trade partner's past traders *before* you agree to terms.