What do you consider "off-the-shelf?"

One time I went to Bruery Provisions and waited over 2 hours in line on a Wednesday morning for one of 90 bottles of Wanderer that sold out in 16 minutes.

I have been told that is an "off shelf" beer, so anything that is also that accessible, is off the shelf.

 

hahaha, nevermind him. Its a ridiculous comment to make.

You're right in your assumption. Other BA in the story is an ass.

 

If you want to get down to brass tacks, every beer was once an "off the shelf" beer. There's no some magical and mystical concoction that enables a bottle to float in mid air while it waits to be bought.

To me, OTS would imply that you could walk into a shop and easily grab one any day or time of the week. But then again, even that definition doesn't always apply. An easier definition that keeps it simple is locals.

 

While I'm still not convinced that the trading scene really is getting worse, it really does seem like people are getting more brazen and obvious in their attempts to devalue others' beer while pumping up theirs.

 

IMO, off-the-shelf is something that reaches some sort of wide distribution. Distribution to more than just a few stores, and especially when its to more than one county. Bottles with counts in the high 1,000s to 10,000s are certainly shelf beers if they make it outside of the brewery. Just because a store only got a limited amount, or there was a strict bottle limit enforced, doesn't make a beer a non-shelf-beer. KH (and Rare for that matter) were both shelf beers at one point.

Now, as far as KH (and others in the same category), that was a hard-to-find beer for a lot of folks. Whether you found it on the shelf or not, it doesn't mean it should trade for locals or seasonals. Just because a beer could have been found on a shelf at one point doesn't necessarily devalue it in owners' opinions.

But it all comes back to "trade it for what you want to." If both parties are happy in the trade then who cares? Apparently you weren't happy with what the other guy offered, so move on and make a trade with someone else. That's what it's (supposed to be) all about.

 

if it can be found in provisions, it's a shelf beer. if it can be found across multiple stores in multiple states in the midwest, it's a wale.

you know i'm right.

 

This is the correct answer. If I could remove this entire forum, and instead just leave this statement at the top of the ISO:FT forum, I would.

 

i said as much last week... great minds.

i used to be more aggressive about pointing it out.

 

Yeah I was going to credit you for the thought, but then wasn't quite sure it actually was you.

 

For sure. Like when they released 100-something bottles of BT a few weeks ago and it lasted more than 27 seconds. To quote SubpeonaDeuces, "Psh what a shelf turd!"

(shelf turd is my new favorite description of bottles that last longer than 4 minutes on a shelf, anywhere)

 

Just start saying provisions = brewery only release. Duh.

 

I consider an OTS beer something I can walk into any store that sells beer and pickup at any given point during the year.

Ex:

St. Arnold's Weedwhacker
St. Arnold's Elissa IPA

 

why? brewery-only releases like beatification or framboise de amorosa would never trade for shelf turds like cbs, king henry, bcbcs... it's a worthless classification.

i actually got a goandpickitupformebro request when provisions was doing its month of special releases. i had some choice words for that guy.

 

Already forgetting the hauls of Baldo are we

 

Because sarcasm. But you're absolutely right, people put too much stock in the classification.

 

actually, this is a separate discussion, but i think the early reports pretty much establish the rarity narrative. baldo getting a ton of cases => people think everyone got a ton of cases (and truthfully, lots of people outside the area did too; much muling, which you gloss over).

on the other hand, the first few reports for king henry were "omg rare," so things like urbancaver putting up a case of king henry for wooden hell or antlerwrestler19 picking up 16 bottles or cosmicevan buying a case get totally glossed over, or are pigeonholed as exceptions.

if a few vocal people say a beer was really tough to get, you're not likely to find many people (who also have that beer) willing to contradict them.

fwiw, beatification and fda were not hard to get and shouldn't be wales. it's unfortunate that the same isn't true (or professed to be true) for the others i mentioned.

 

Let's not make this another time where we bastardize the definition to suit our needs and not just accept the common sense definition.

King Henry was/is an off the shelf beer. It was widely distributed and available off the shelf. No if, ands or buts about it. It may have been limited, it may have been hard to track down for some but it was still off the shelf.

 

I actually completely agree with you 100%, and I lean more towards the idea that people putting up cases of KH are a pigeonholded exception. The Midwest (especially the wasteland known as Chicago) has become so highly concentrated with "beer geeks" that even beers with around 10,000 bottle releases get spread extrememly thin. There are much more people with said beer, but each person has way less outside of the few exceptions. People don't seem to understand that. "ZOMG 10,000 bottle release...you must have at LEAST 12 to trade" seems to be a common concept on the forums now within every region.

Nothing that hits distribution or sits around at a brewery for weeks should be considered walez or trade for them. KH, CBS, BCBS, KBS etc. are all shelf beers. Limited beers, but shelf beers. The trading forums have just become a mob of people trying to maximize every trade and trying to shoot for the moon.

 

i can believe that. i remarked to masterski yesterday that i'd like to see if there's a way to analyze this demographic transformation on ba (perhaps by e.g. reviewing trends). unfortunately, there probably isn't. but i find it entirely plausible that over the past 3 years, most of the growth in beer consumers might be highly regional.

agreed, but that ship has sailed.