Differences between Gose and Berliner Weisse

Gose is really salty.

 

Gose=coriander and salt used in brewing process
Berliner Weisse=no coriander and salt

the original german recipes are still a mystery as to how both styles were soured (most likely they only used lactobacillus),so american brewers are doing it their way.

 

The differences are subtle, but essentially yes @drmeto is absolutely correct.

I would additonally say that Gose has a minimum amount of wheat grain that is supposed to be used to make it a gose (at least 50%), where as a Berliner Weisse can be any combination of wheat and barley but should be kilned at low temperature to not affect the color.

Also (more of a fun note) Berliner Weisse style has been given Protected Geographical Indication within the EU, where it may only be applied to beers brewed in Berlin. Very much how sparkling wine can only be called "Champagne" if it comes from the Champagne region of France. This obviously has not been applied to brewery outside of the EU, but maybe someday in the future a berliner weisse made outside the region will no longer be able to use that name. Wouldn't that be interesting!

 

Meanwhile Berliner Kindl is allowed to call theirs a Berliner weisse,even though it isn't one.

 

I have not had a chance to try! I just look them up on BA and it says they have a berliner weisse in the summer as a seasonal, have you had this? http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/1401/3708/ but I see your point!

 

Its my understanding that in the case of Gose, the German brewers are also doing it their way since the style had actually not been brewed for 25 years or so before it was revived there.

 

I like to think it happened much like in Brussels and Lambeek, Belgium. Some lacto floated in the open windows at night while they were cooling wort in a coolship-type vessel or ceramic pot. This innoculated the wort.

Now this new method of pitching the lactobacillus extremely hot is interesting.

 

Berliner Weisse can also have Brett character, sadly Kindl does not.

 

Sometimes very subtle since some breweries' goses feature more "tang" than "saline."

Many of the breweries here -- Cycle, Coppertail and J Wakefield, just to name a few -- already call their versions of this style "Florida weisses."

@inchrisin, you should come to the Tampa Bay area (during the winter; it's already miserably hot) and come drink Rapp Brewing's gose, which is my favorite among domestic brewers (and I've had them from all over). Rapp and others also have berliners on tap fairly frequently. You could do a side-by-side!

 

Thanks - concise distinction!

 

I'll never forget the first time I went to Berlin and that was the ONLY Berliner-weisse around I could find... it drove me absolutely insane trying to find just... any OTHER one... to try... but not dice. The non flavored one I felt was ok at least...

 

i was fortunate enough to have tried schultheiss' berliner weisse before they went under.

 

Technically, a Florida Weiss is not a Berliner with a new name. A Florida Weiss is a Berliner Weiss fermented with fruit, more specifically tropical fruit.

 

Someone had mentioned they "use" lactobacillus. This is a bacteria and not a yeast. It's not something that is "applied" to beer, it is formed in a way. This flavor has a tart flavor, that's moreover acceptable in a Berliner Weisse, and not as much in a Gose. Gose also has some traditions in Belgium as well, BW obviously from Berlin. Flavor wise, assuming you don't add syrup to the BW (which is traditional of the style) the BW will be much more sour and typically a low abv 2.8-3.8(?).

 

This is a great explanation!

Having only had a few Gose and Berliner Weisse beers I prefer the saltiness that the former style has, it's more of a refreshing style summer beer.

 

Could you elaborate a bit on what you mean by this? Never heard before that Gose had any connection to Belgium. Thanks!

 

Well the connections that I have read have been related to Belgium having the original sours, and then Germany creating the BW and Gose. I think Mosher (or brewmasters table, I can't remember) talked about Gose being a play off of their styles due to it not being in accordance with Reinheisgebot (bad spelling I know). It's been a while since I read up on it but that's what I can recall. I'll check and follow up!

 

Thanks!

So far I've been under the impression that there was similarity because of comparable environmental conditions (e.g., open fermentation back in the olden days would always result in some batches getting "contaminated" with wild yeast and bacteria) and that with Gose the water they used to use played a role, in the saltiness. Your mention of the reading may help as I think I can track down a copy of each of those books without too much trouble.

 

I assume some/most of y'all have read Ron P's writings on the "style." I find the following excerpt pretty informative re: the similarities between Gose and Lambic:

"Another important characteristic of Gose that makes it very different from other German beer of the 19th century is the method of conditioning. There was no long period of lagering at the brewery. Gose was delivered, still fermenting quite vigourously, in barrels to the Schänke. It was stored in the cellar with the tap bung closed but the shive hole left open, so that the still-active yeast could escape. Only when the fermentation had slowed to a point where no yeast was emerging from the shive hole, was the Gose ready to bottle. The barrel was emptied into a tank, from whence it was filled into the characteristic long-necked bottles. These were not closed with a cap or cork, but with a plug of yeast which naturally rose up the neck as the secondary fermentation continued.

How long this conditioning lasted depended upon a number of factors, most importantly the temperature outside. In the Summer an unlucky landlord could see his whole supply turn to vinegar. The minimum period for a bottle to mature was around a week. In warm weather a Gose would be considered undrinkable after about three weeks. The trick for the landlord was in serving his Gose at just the right degree of maturity. Some went so far as to have stocks of beer of different ages, so regular customers could have their beer just as they liked it.

You could consider this method as a sort of combination of the British tradition of cask-conditioning in the pub cellar and the Belgian tradition of lambic blending and bottling by pub landlords. The taste of the final product was determined as much by what happened in the pub as in the brewery."

As for the differences in Gose and Berliner Weisse, especially as process(es) go, there were numerous differences. You can read about one example of the process(es) here: http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2009/05/berliner-weisse-1830s-style.html. Also, Michael Jackson described the highly complex process of brewing Schultheiss Berliner Weisse:

"In the production of Berliner Weisse, there is a blending with a wort that is three to six months old. The brew then has between three and six months' maturation at warm temperatures, is re-inoculated, and has three to four weeks' bottle conditioning.... Devotees of the style will keep the beer for a further one to two years in a cool, dark place (but not a refrigerator) to bring out the delicacy and complexity of its fruitiness and fragrance."

The most "authentic" version of Gose, according to Ron P., is Doellnitzer Ritterguts, here: http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/7715/11218/