CAMRA Opinion

as a long standing CAMRA member who has been drinking 'craft' beer since before it was a hipster thing and who has been happy to drink keg beers over the past few years that's a difficult one. I know some strident advocates of craft who love to deride CAMRA for doing what it's supposed to do, ie campaign for Real Ale, who believe that the only good beer is the next beer from the latest brewery to pop up in a railway arch as long as it has hops on top of hops. But there are also the more reasoned craft lovers who realise that without CAMRA there would be no craft beer.
I get the distinct impression that craft newbies, as opposed to open minded beer drinkers are too blinkered to admit to acknowledging that CAMRA has been a force for good. Craft is their new toy, their obsession, their train spotting.

As an aside:
Craft beer originated in the States following the legalisation of home brewing and the formation of AHA. Competitions sparked commercial ideas as the home brewers rebelled against the ubiquitous bland yellow fizz. GBBF in 1995 was selling American beer under the craft banner.

 

Now that CAMRA are allowing key kegs to qualify as "real ale", do you think that that might help?

 

It's interesting to hear the definitions of "real ale" abroad. When I talk to foreigners in craft beer bars they always say that they don't like "real ale" meaning flat,warm bitter. I then mention that porters, imperial stouts, hoppy IPA's etc. have been brewed in the UK for many a year from real ale breweries and would be classified so, they do seem genuinely shocked. This narrowness in a way is to be expected as they wouldn't probably know the history in the UK, although I don't think UK drinkers should forget the linkage as already mentioned.

 

I'm a beer drinker and have been for 13 years. I used to drink, well in my opinion, decent imports, Belgians, Germans etc. until finding "craft" a couple of years ago. Before then I didn't enjoy cask, probably due to the "flat warm" fare I tried. After getting into craft, big stouts, crazy hopped IPAs and the likes I find I now appreciate cask ales and will actively seek a pub/restaurant with cask if there's not one where I can get craft, I do stil, prefer a high abv stout or IPA to most things and I also prefer beer more carbonated than you get with cask.

However, CAMRA has a horrendous socks and sandals, Guardian crossword completing image that is obviously gonna turn off young people when you look at how well UK craft brewers market to younger people. Man, I'm 31 and I find Beavertowns cans cool, at 18 I would be so excited to take those to a party, I'd be embarrassed to take something with a name like Fursty Ferret or Hobgoblin to a party no matter how nice they tasted. If CAMRA and "real ale" Brewers want new members/customers, stubborn as they are, they need to do something about the image because they come across as boring and something for old men.

On a side note, a friend of mine I'm out with a lot likes to try my beer though she never buys it in the house and hates lager. She can get excited about the oldest brewery in the world, the craziness of some smoked beers, strong stouts with coffee/chocolate, the fruitiness/bitterness of IPAs, Belgian brewing traditions but all the cask I buy she thinks is boring, so maybe it's just a palate thing that craft excites people whereas you have to be really in to beer to appreciate cask?

Edit to say, I agree with Zimbo, they don't need to go hipster to achieve a better image, but they do need to do something because they're fighting a losing battle currently.

 

I suppose I would qualify as a noob. So here's my two pence.
I've only recently got into actively seeking new beers. The last 5 years or so, I have always tried new beer (without seeking, per se), and this has primarily come via cask ales on the pump. This is where my interest in beer flowed - literally.
In the subsequent years, the explosion of "craft beer" has meant I've tried more and more as it became widely available in shops / bars etc. The streams of craft stuff has by no means diminished my appetite for cask. For me, it's just another type of beer to try. The more the merrier.
So, CAMRA? I've recently looked at joining. I've been aware of its "campaign" for a few years, although I'll be honest, the specifics of what they do is not something I could go in to much detail about. My thinking was I want more real ale - so, if joining CAMRA helps, great? My interest in CAMRA and it's aims is there but, having said that, I haven't joined. Does this perhaps illustrate a subconscious apathy? Possibly.

 

I have been a member of CAMRA for a little over ten years now, and even though I find some aspects of CAMRA both at local and national level quite frustrating at times, I feel that it is a worthy organisation to belong to. One thing that has struck me is the difference between some of the "old guard" and some of the newer members. I know a number of long-time members who are really quite fundamentalist about real ale, and these in my experience tend to be the people that are the most disparaging about "craft" i.e. "keg" beer. But then again, they remember the bad old days, whereas I joined when the real ale revival was already well under way. And I think this is a major factor: people in their twenties or early thirties, particularly if they live in large towns or cities, have always had access to decent beer (largely due to the influence of organisations like CAMRA and SIBA), whether that be real ale or craft keg, and are less likely to be hung-up on the definitions/differences, and consequently are probably less likely to feel the need to join CAMRA. Has CAMRA outlived its usefulness? No, in my opinion, but they do need to work out how to deal with the issue of "craft" beer and how to remain relevant, especially to younger people. I am slightly bemused by the apparent need for some people to drink thngs that are perceived to be "hip" or "trendy" though. Whatever happened to drinking something based on taste as opposed to image?

 

I'm in a kind of weird place about CAMRA just now. I kind of feel like I want to join, more out of solidarity and feeling part of something. Although it would bring very little benefit to me, as there are hardly any places serving real ale here, and the nearest Wetherspoon's is about 200 miles away, so even using the vouchers would be awkward.
Getting the newsletters and magazines etc would be good for keeping up to speed with what's going on in the beer world, but with the Internet and sites like this, even they aren't necessary.

So in all, I'm in a bit of a quandary, really!

 

Curious, what is the cost of a CAMRA membership?

 

Your personal hygiene, your waistline, your fashion sense and your self respect.

 

Where about in Scotland are you that you're 200 miles from a 'Spoons?

 

It's £25 a year or so. You get a newsletter/magazine and some vouchers for cheap pints at wetherspoons, a large pub chain that sells lots of real ale. You also get a few quid off entry to any CAMRA beer festival and some discount rates at various clothing stores etc

It's pretty good value really, assuming you use some of the vouchers and go to a few beer fests.

 

I'm reckoning possibly in a dinghy on the way to Rockall?

 

First of all, CAMRA is a single issue organisation which, because of its constitution is there to promote what is called "real ale"
I'm vary annoyed at how "craft" is understood in the UK.It's a word imported from the US where the situation and infrastructure was entirely different from ours, in particular the almost complete lack of cellars and expertise for keeping and serving cask beer.It seems only to be applied to overpriced and often messed about keg beer which is no better crafted than mainstream small brewery British beer.

The name "craft" was first applied there, the product has been around for much longer than that.

 

What do you mean by 'messed about' keg beer?

A strange take on a dispense mechanism, most likely by someone who never / rarely drinks it ?

The majority of the beers I've enjoyed the most in the past few years have been from keg, just because they probably aren't the style of beer that you prefer doesn't mean to say they are messed up in anyway !

I've had far more 'messy beers' from cask than keg !

 

Rock, yes. Rockall, not quite! I'm in Shetland, so the most easily accessible Spoons is in Aberdeen. 12-14 hour ferry or a stupidly expensive flight isn't really very practical!

 

Kinda thought it must be one of the islands.

 

Speaking from the perspective of the outsider, I first learned about CAMRA back in the 80s when visiting a friend in York. My first pint was after a bit of a Sunday trek over the Yorkshire Moors timed to both see some countryside and to make it to a particular country pub he wanted to visit. Over the years since I've accumulated 20-25 visits to the UK ranging in length from a week to as long as a month in places as far south as Exeter and as far north as Edinburgh. Many of these visits have been in non-tourist attraction areas such as the midlands. Indeed, I was a cask ale drinker long before I found out about US craft beer. I have spend more than one long session drinking the "best local bitter" with friends in more than one countryside pub (and often prefer them to those in the cities). Once some years ago a friend in the US asked me, "Where do you go to have a beer." Without giving it much thought, my reply was, "The UK."

This is all a very long background to expressing my agreement with points many have raised about CAMRA. It seems to me that the general CAMRA mind set is still deeply engaged in still waging the battle to prevent the demise of cask ale when faced with the growth in popularity of mass market lagers. Many have become so polarized by that "fight" that they have forgotten that old adage, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." While it seems true that many who begin with craft think of CAMRA as engaging only "the shaggy old guys" it also seems that many in CAMRA fail to realize that there is a big tent out there under which many groups can be accommodated, each without endangering the other, and each learning from the other. Just as some craft drinkers need to recognize that an adjunct like rice can be used to make a flavorful beer that fits nicely into the craft household, cask drinkers need to recognize that there are other ways to present flavorful beers that engage the tastebuds and challenge us to find something of the complexity that we enjoy.

So just as I am encouraged to be able to find multiple places withing comfortable distances from where I live in the US that seem to be able to do cask reasonably well as an occasion offering, so too am I encouraged to find signs that CAMRA is recognizing that there is more than one way to prepare and dispense a beer that many can enjoy. It will be to the long range benefit of both should this continue.