Forgotten Boardwalk's NJ brewing license process

Discussion in 'Mid-Atlantic' started by EverydayBeer, Aug 15, 2015.

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  1. EverydayBeer

    EverydayBeer Initiate (0) Aug 15, 2015

    Below is a link to a public document posted and available on the State of NJ's ABC web site. The majority of this document is 55 pages of the approval process Forgotten Boardwalk went through to get their brewing license from the state between 2014-2015.

    http://www.nj.gov/lps/abc/downloads/abc-bulletin-2486.pdf

    I'll let you read and draw your own conclusions.
     
  2. eagles7251

    eagles7251 Zealot (658) Sep 29, 2009 New Jersey

    Any chance of a summary?
     
  3. rfgetz

    rfgetz Pooh-Bah (2,609) Nov 14, 2008 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah

    Trying to start a brewery is a pain in the ass in NJ :wink:

    Oddly enough, I was there for the first time yesterday and had a discussion about this process, including how having a Skee Ball game in the brewery almost got them in trouble with the state.
     
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  4. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey

    Doubtless it's a PIA to start a brewery in NJ in any case. I just skimmed and it seems the state did have a good reason to look into the of theses people. I'll try and give io a good read later.
     
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  5. EverydayBeer

    EverydayBeer Initiate (0) Aug 15, 2015

    From Page 1-18: "Given the ongoing investigation by the Waterfront Commission into Seth Dolled's alleged association with Jamie Queli's father, Joseph M. Queli, an alleged member of the Genovese crime family, and given the unresolved questions about the source of Jamie Queli's money, the Licensing Bureau sought the assistance of the Division's Enforcement Bureau in continuing the investigation into the qualifications of Jamie Queli and Seth Dolled to hold a Limited Brewery License and into the source of money used to finance the Forgotten Boardwalk business"

    From Page 1-40: "In total, Forgotten Boardwalk invested at least $462,445.50 on this business venture prior to ever filing au application with the Division... Presumably, the principals knew, or should have known, that they had to apply for and prove to the Division that they had the requisite qualifications to hold a liquor license' Given that it appears that Jamie Queli received approximately $284,545.00 for the business from her father, a man with federal and State convictions for racketeering, money laundering, loan sharking and tax evasion, and given that Seth Dolled's alleged associations with organized crime have made him the subject of an investigation by the waterfront commission, it is beyond comprehension that these individuals spent over $460,000.00 on this business without hiring an attorney and/or discussing the viability of a license with the Division' The fact that they now have to pay back their lenders for their ill-conceived expenditures is not the Division's fault and is not the kind of hardship that should result in the issuance of a temporary license."
     
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  6. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Indeed, my quick skim suggests multiple reasons, the least of which might be a Skee Ball game.
     
  7. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey

    If you get a chance read the whole thing. Hard to see anything the state did that was uncalled for.
     
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  8. thematturals

    thematturals Initiate (0) Mar 8, 2014 New Jersey

    Currently reading through this and it's extremely interesting. I vaguely remember it taking forever for the brewery to actually start making beer and this obviously explains why. Was it considered the states fault that it took that long? Reading this it seems completely clear to me why it took awhile.
     
  9. schteve

    schteve Pundit (884) Sep 10, 2003 New Jersey

    I never got the impression that BA's were blaming the state, but it probably came across that the owners were. And probably whitewashing the real reasons why. But the bottom line is, they're open now and the licensing process is nearly forgotten (see what I did there? :wink:). Whatever you think of their beers, they're present in the NJ beer scene.
    It is interesting, though, that someone joins the site today to post this and only this. Ax to grind?
     
  10. EverydayBeer

    EverydayBeer Initiate (0) Aug 15, 2015

    No ax to grind at all. I don't know anything about their beer firsthand, so I'm not going to make judgments either way on that. However, this was only posted to the state of NJ ABC site recently, so the facts are relatively fresh and it seems the licensing process is still in temporary stages. The last information is that their temporary license expired 6/30/15. Here's the general gist of the facts.

    -Both the Quelli and Dolled families allegedly have ties to the Genovese crime family.
    -Jamie Quelli and Seth Dolled spent nearly half a million dollars in construction and brewery equipment costs before applying for a liquor license.
    -They brewed 3000 gallons of beer without having a license. They were ordered to destroy this beer, but 1500 gallons of it "disappeared".
    -The ABC repeatedly asked for source information on the money used to open the brewery and continually got evasive answers. When it finally came to light that Jamie Quelli's money came from an illegal source (her father), she paid them back immediately and got a loan from Seth Dolled's parents.
    -Seth Dolled has been disqualified from holding a license on grounds of "moral turpitude" due to his dismissal from his NJ Waterfront job and connection with Jamie's father, Joseph Quelli. He can have nothing to do with the brewery until mid-2016 when he can apply to be employed by them with approval from the ABC. By mid-2018, he can apply to have his disqualification lifted and legitimately be an owner in the business.
    -The $300k Seth Dolled put into the business is supposed to be returned to him, but since this would cause irreparable harm to the business, this has been put on hold pending the lifting of his disqualification in 2018.

    Below this is conjecture based on the facts above.
    -Jamie Quelli and Seth Dolled knew full well that they would have problems getting their license approval. They invested so much in the business so that they could turn around and say, "Well, we've already put so much money into this. You can't shut us down now." Ultimately, this worked.
    -Despite Director Halfacre's conclusions on page 1-40, he proceeded to grant them a temporary license anyway. His "flip" from beginning to end is curious. He goes from saying that it's not the ABC's fault that they spent so much money to not only granting their license on special conditions, but giving them a three year hiatus before they even have to consider removing Seth Dolled's $300k from the business.
    -If Seth Dolled's money is tainted and he got the money from his parents, how is Jamie Quelli's money not tainted?
    -Waste disposal in NJ has a long history of having mafia ties. It's not a stretch to think that the other 1500 gallons were not destroyed either. Even if this didn't happen, it's still very likely that they profited from the first 1500 gallons anyway.
    -As a lifelong NJ resident and member of the NJ beer scene, this just stinks to all high heaven. It's a slap in the face to every other NJ brewery that has started their business the right way. Had Forgotten Boardwalk not muscled their way into getting a license, the business would have never gotten off the ground. Now they're taking away space from every other brewery that's available in NJ.

    Again, no ax to grind. It's just disturbing that this happening in the beer business in NJ in 2015.
     
  11. RETEP84

    RETEP84 Initiate (0) Dec 1, 2013 New Jersey

    I love it when people start Sh** Your obviously bitter about something that has happened to you and taking it out of them.

    They are 2 people that have worked extremely hard to open a brewery and are meeting great success.


    Life long NJ resident here FB - Supporter.
     
    #11 RETEP84, Aug 16, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2015
  12. thematturals

    thematturals Initiate (0) Mar 8, 2014 New Jersey

    What? How is posting something this interesting about the brewery license process starting something?
     
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  13. ryan79

    ryan79 Devotee (346) Oct 21, 2012 New Jersey

    You can say what you want , but Jamie & co have worked their asses off to make this a successful brewery.
     
  14. PA-Michigander

    PA-Michigander Grand Pooh-Bah (3,372) Nov 10, 2013 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Should be made into a reality show.
     
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  15. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey

    If you owed 500G's to the Genovese crime family you would be working your ass off too:rolling_eyes:.
     
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  16. JosephThompson

    JosephThompson Zealot (584) Nov 29, 2011 New Jersey

    It's a public record about why a much publicized NJ brewery had the multiple delays in opening they had. Up until now it was blamed on simple bureaucracy whereas the actual reasoning has some meat behind it and should be interesting to any NJ resident and beer drinker.

    Even taking your supposition of bitterness, there is nothing this does to "take it out" on Forgotten Boardwalk. People aren't going to stop drinking due to alleged "familia" capital that was invested. At most, the tasting room patrons will bite their tongue harder when it comes to jokes about being connected. Hardly a death knell.
     
  17. Ieatlambfries

    Ieatlambfries Maven (1,344) Dec 5, 2003 New Jersey

    Actually you didn't let any one read and make their own conclusions.

    You authored another post full of bullet points, and included your own unfounded conclusions such as,

    "Had Forgotten Boardwalk not muscled their way into getting a license, the business would have never gotten off the ground. Now they're taking away space from every other brewery that's available in NJ."

    No axe to grind indeed! :rolling_eyes:
     
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  18. mcb4538

    mcb4538 Zealot (561) Jul 12, 2007 New Jersey

    To me, the most upsetting part is how FB played up the licensing issue as "Lol ABC ¯\_(ツ)_/¯" while they sold and gave out their keys.

    It just rubs me the wrong way that they knew why they were having issues, and that they definitely didn't need to raise money with their society, that honestly, has not been worth the $15.
     
  19. SRBush1974

    SRBush1974 Initiate (0) Apr 18, 2015 New Jersey

    Would be a lot more interesting than 99% of the crap out there! I'd watch it.

    Think I have some reading to do!
     
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  20. BrewDrinkRepeat

    BrewDrinkRepeat Initiate (0) Oct 27, 2006 New Jersey

    Not specifically related to Forgotten Boardwalk: what I've always found so bizarre is the level of scrutiny the Federal government and NJ pay to people opening breweries, as opposed to opening other types of businesses. Why the laws and regulations are so magnified as soon as alcohol enters the picture is ludicrous and completely nonsensical. If they wanted to open a soda company it would've been a breeze by comparison.

    I would never open a brewery in NJ, far too much regulation and restriction for my taste (even with the recent changes to brewpub and brewery regulations). Dealing with the Feds is hard enough, if I ever open a place it'll be in a state that actually wants me to do business there and make it as easy as possible for me to create jobs and contribute to the local tax base, and to grow my business as I see fit.

    Actually, it's quite likely that I would never start a brewery anywhere, just dealing with the Feds would probably make my head explode.

    (FTR, I wouldn't start *any* type of business in NJ.)

    Edit: after reading through the PDF I found the section on Melovino far more interesting. :slight_smile:
     
    #20 BrewDrinkRepeat, Aug 17, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2015
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