ISO:FT Board: "whales" only?

I like trying shelf beers from different states...I made a couple of trades for shelf beers (mostly Westbrook Gose on my part), and I''ve started back to on-line purchasing, still paying for the shipping

 

This is true. I hate when we all get swept up in such beers thus overlooking other ones coming out that could be just as good

 

I remember seeing someone referring Parabola as a white whale they been trying to hunt down. Don't get wrong, Parabola is a very very very good beer, one of my favorite BA stouts, but white whalez?

 

It all depends on your perspective, and how 'in to' beer you are. Hence the problem - you could never define and police a set of boards that split out whales, because one persons whale is another persons shelf turd - the concept of a 'list of whalez' is ludicrous because you are externally defining an individual personal quest/desire/goal.

The concept that the term 'whale' is reserved and cannot evolve ignores the fact that this hobby is quickly growing and changing; if someone thinks Parabola is their white whale, well, it is. Before anyone jumps up and down and goes on a rant about 'true whalez bro' or any crap like that, remember the term is lifted from literature, and the white whale is something different to everyone.

I have a trade buddy in Australia - he gets various Cantillon quite regularly. None of his buddies (as far as I know at least) have ever seen a bottle of Parabola, let alone tasted it. My sought after beers are not the same as his - I give him a Parabola and he flips out, he gives me a Cantillon, and I flip out. the whole concept of beer trading only works because I want what you have got, more than I want the beers I already have...

Back to the point - the trade forums seem to be covered these days in people seeking their personal whales which in reality is chasing the hyped beer of the month. This seems to have increased, and there is a growing perception (at least I think there is) that it is normal to 'trade up' and try and win a trade to get a slightly more desirable beer, and repeat this process until you get to the top of the tree - catch your whale so to speak.

To me this is flabbergasting - the idea that you would go to all that effort, spend all that money on shipping, and not even intend to drink the fucking stuff every time is just idiotic - but I suspect I am just being a 'grandpa' complaining about kids on the lawn.

I have no solutions, it is what it is. The beer trading world seems to be moving on, and this is the new normal.

 

You can get one right now for a bottle of Parabola lol
http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/iso-parabola-ft-ba-blackout-stout.331784/

 

I don't think a "whale" forum would be a good thing because everyone's definition of a whale is different. Hell, KBS was a whale for me when I first started trading, then it became Huna, then VR, now DB Huna and Assassin are my whale watch beers but for some people those are not much more than beers that they can package for a single KBBS.

Why not make a "Local for Local" forum or "Shelf for Shelf" forum? Sometimes I just want to trade for a sixer of Westbrook Gose and some HopDrop and I don't even bother posting here because it get lost in a sea of whale posts. I end up just posting it on FB where it will get a bunch of hits pretty quickly because there is less whale hunting there but I'd really prefer to keep my trades here for peace of mind since FB doesn't have a way of rating traders.

Just a thought.

 

I agree with some of what's already been said, I don't think it's so much "whales" that dominate the trading forums as it is the local flavor of the week. The same breweries who have small batch limited releases almost every few weeks are the ones that consistently show up. The beers from these breweries trade for similar limited release beers so if you don't have access to one of these breweries your SOL.

For example, there's a lot of beers I want to try but very little to nothing locally will get me those beers. I could drive 8 hours round trip to JK for one bottle to trade for some of those beers but I'm done chasing for the most part. I'm to the point that as much as I'd like to try other beers, the local distribution is much better and I find much of what I trade for isn't "that" much better than what I'm trading myself. Personally it's not worth the hassle, time and money to persue these beers when I can go to my local bar or store and get something that may not be as good but pretty damn good in its own right. Luckliy, my permawants are relatively obtainable (ie NG fruit beers) and I've become content with what's easily available.

IMOF, as much as I like sour, funk, adjunct stouts, etc I've recently found myself going back to where I started. It's nice to pick up a sixer of a stellar German hefe or bock, or a Hoegaarden, and know exactly what I'm getting...a great, clean, representation of the style without having to worry about inconsistency, off flavors or infection. There's a reason some of these breweries have been around for hundreds of years. They may not be as "artsy" or complex or interesting as the beer of the week but they are fantastic and deliver every time.

On a separate note, no offense to anyone in particular but here's a little rant (surprise, surprise). I still don't understand why people are complaining about the no comments and "not knowing what gets done" or "how to gauge trade value". I've noticed a few of these people are the same ones who tried to maximize their trades when comments were available. Irony? I don' think so.

Here's a crazy concept, why not post what you think is fair and if no one takes it then either up your offer or drink what you have and be happy. Are people worried they'll give up too much? not make a good enough offer? If you trade by only giving up what you think is worth it than you shouldn't be worried about giving up too much. Not to mention, who cares? So you didn't win a trade, again, if you traded what you were comfortable with than it doesn't matter.

If you see a ridiculous ISO either that person won't get any replies and lower their offer or they'll keep their beer, it's not a big deal. If it bothers you that much, send them a pm politely telling them your thoughts and offer them what you think is fair. If they get crickets, they'll come back to you or keep what they have.

If anything, I think knowing what gets done contributes to the same problem that some of you complain about. If I decide to give up xyz whale for the flavor of the week than all of the sudden everyone who has that flavor of the week starts increasing their ISO all because I gave up what I thought was worth it. It's f'in ridiculous. This is supposed to be trading beer not Wall Street.

That's all.

 

Very well said. You've pretty much nailed my sentiments.

 

Spot on @cfh64. I see offers on the trade forums that I want to offer feedback on as much as the next guy but there is no doubt in my mind that removing the comments was a wise decision. The flip side of the "comments keep ridiculous offers in check" coin is that comments also helped clue in the "WINNING" traders in on what they could get away with. The bottom line is that you will have people treating beer trading like the futures market because there is no amount of safeguarding that will prevent some people from being greedy, capitalistic beer-grubbers. And if you MUST know what thugs are going for, a fairly useful trend of "completed trades" threads has risen up since trade forum comments were suspended.

To the topic at hand, I agree with the increased attention--not to whales, but to the new and hot beers. And you can see this attitude permeating every aspect of the culture. I'm of the opinion that the "get the newest and hottest" attitude was at least part of the source of the backlash against the "returning to our roots" change that BA recently made with regard to score calculation.

All that said, easy, low-pressure trades can still be had. But you have to be willing to 1) post them yourself rather than searching the forums for them, and 2) go outside the forums to initiate them, whether that means utilizing people's wants lists or trading with/finding RTPs.

 

Just because you don't understand something (and evidently feel the need to aim veiled insults at those who do) doesn't make it any less valid. It's great that ISO:FT as it currently is works well for you, but that isn't the case for many others.

 

Veiled? I thought I was pretty clear and transparent, sorry you take offense. I understand it doesn't work well for others but perhaps if they weren't spending so much time worrying about whether their offer is too low or too high and posted what they thought was fair than it wouldn't be a problem. It's easy to make adjustments.

I posted a FT: Thicket ISO: VR and got crickets. Enough said. I don't need to know what other people traded thicket for nor do I care. I have three options 1) post again hoping it catches the right person 2) keep it or 3) add something else I think may be fair. So my question isn't so veiled, what's so difficult about that and/or why is that a problem for some people?

I'm being dead serious, not snarky. Unless you're worried about winning why do you have to know what other people trade their beer for?

Edit: I shouldn't have said or implied everyone who wants comments is trying to win. I realize thats not the case but people still shouldn't care or gauge trade value based on what other people are trading their beers for. Your offer should be your percieved value not mine.

 

I agree with a lot of what you said in your original post but some of that is also just your own personal opinions which obviously don't apply to everyone.

The problem I have is, if you post a trade that you believe is fair and you get crickets, you have two options if you want to pursue that bottle. Your first option is to edit your post and add something else, which will probably never be seen because within a couple hours of posting, you're on the 2nd or 3rd page so unless someone is searching for what you posted, you're SOL. The second option is to wait 3 days and post a new FT for the bottle you're ISO and then you run the risk of still having a good enough offer and you're back to square one. At that point, you may have been searching for that bottle for 6-9 days until you realize what it really takes to get the bottle and you may not be comfortable giving up that much and you decide to stop searching and you basically just wasted a week or more trying to acquire a bottle that's out of your reach. If you would have just known the perceived value of that bottle from the jump, maybe you don't even worry about going after it and just try to trade for something else, but instead you wasted your time and clogged up the trade forum.

For example, when FO was first released, I offered an Abraxas for a bottle because I thought (in my head) that it was a fair offer. I got crickets and then upped the offer to an Abraxas and a Mexican Cake which I thought was more than fair. Crickets again. I ended up having to offer Abraxas, Cake, and a Jackie O's bottle to get it done and looking back, I wish I didn't but I felt like I was hunting so bad and for so long for the bottle that I needed to do what it took because I had already committed to finding one. Sure, that's my fault but if I would have known how much it would take from the jump, I probably would have just traded for an Atrial or something else that I also wanted and maybe kept my Cake.

I wasn't worried about "winning" the trade, but I had little knowledge of FO living on the East Coast so I thought my original offer was fair. Obviously I was off and if I would have known that I could have cut to the chase and made a better offer or kept my bottles and traded them for something else. I'm sure others have run into this problem and all of these trades that are way off just clog up the trade forum.

That's great that you can just post a trade and if it doesn't get done you just drink your stuff and you're happy with that but not everybody has that mindset. I don't think it's fair to say that you're trying to win a trade just because you want to know the value of a bottle. Sometimes you just want to know the value to determine if it's even worth your time trying to trade for that bottle.

If I'm buying a house, I want to know the asking price as well as the comps in the area, not because I'm trying to screw the seller, but because I want to know if it's worth even making an offer on the house. No sense making an offer of 300k on a house worth 500k, I'll just search in another neighborhood.

 

Like it or not, offers in ISO:FT are going to be judged by potential trading partners in the context of everything being posted or getting done. With no feedback (and as far as I can tell, Mythaeus is right: people almost never want to start a conversation just to give you feedback on an offer) I can't tell if I'm getting zero responses because my offer was ridiculous or nobody has my ISO or geographical venn diagram issues or beer style venn diagram issues or my offer was buried before anyone saw it or some other reason – I just don't have a clue.

At that point the only thing I can do is wait and post again, possibly increasing what I'm offering to see if that has any effect. Sometimes that works, but often it doesn't, and when it doesn't I again have no idea why. So do I wait and try posting again, offering even more beer, hoping that will solve it? It all becomes frustrating rather than fun, and the whole point of trading beer is supposed to be fun.

 

Sometimes you offer a beer that was available in that area and you had no idea. The value is fair but there's no way of knowing that if you would have just swapped it out for something out of distro, you may have landed your ISO.

I tried landing some Other Half stuff for a Mexican Cake and I didn't realize it until I posted it on Facebook and someone said that a ton of Cake was distro'd in NY so not many people were still looking for it. I had no idea. I ended up swapping out the Cake for something actually less valuable in my mind with that trader on Facebook and got the deal done because of constructive criticism.

 

This I understand. I know it can be frusturating waiting for a few days and realize that once your post gets knocked off the first page than others may not see it. I really don't have an answer for this and it has crossed my mind before you even posted.

Playing devils advocate, I think some people put too much emphasis on trades getting buried. Most people who actively trade search the iso's they missed while away. For example, I get busy and miss the past day of ISO's. I'll scroll through them until I got to where I left off. A lot of people also, or should, use the search feature for beers they are looking for so they don't miss anything.

I know seekabrew isnt always up to date but its a useful resource when looking for distribution in other states. Also, as already discussed, so many of the ISO's are flavors of the week looking for flavors of last week and those are usually produced by small breweries with local distribution only which most people know.

You have a decent point but I still think the pro's of no comments outweigh the cons. This is just my opinion and I RESPECT OTHERS OPINIONS as lomg as they are the same as mine J/K. Please realize I edited my comment to reflect that I didn't really mean to imply that everyone who wants comments are trying to win.

I respect and usually agree with @mythaeus so please don't take this the wrong way. If someone's offer is way off in your opinion why not pm them? I've developed great trading relationships in the past doing just that. If you (not literally) have time to post comments in the forums and an offer is that offensive to you than certainly you have time to pm someone. Help fix the problem, not contribute to it by not saying anything.

Yes, the counter to that is "well if it was posted publicly where everyone could see it than it would be more beneficial because it would reach more traders". True, but that's where I see more harm than good by people inflating the value for personal reasons and start basing their ISO's off of others values to try and get more.

As stated above, Venn can be solved by seekabrew or doing minor research plus most ISO's are dealing with small, local breweries that have little to no distribution. I'm not being sarcastic but I think most active traders can figure the majority of these out. Another solution to Venn or not knowing specifically what beers to offer due to whatever reason is posting a list of everything you have and are willing to trade. In your comments, put "some combination of" which will solve all of those issues, either you have something others want or you don't.

 

This. Why do people think only posts on Page 1 of the ISO:FT thread get consummated? Edit your post accordingly & if someone is looking for what you have or have what you are looking for, they will either scroll through the pages or use the search function & send you a message, etc.

 

I'm definitely no expert and don't know how to use half the features on this site but perhaps @Todd we could have a sticky with the different features, how to use them, what they do, and the advantages. For all I know this already exists, I usually scan specific forums only. Maybe consolidating all of the features in one prominent area for everyone to see would help a lot of us out. I'm guessing this is already out there and I'm just clueless.

Until I saw recently read a comment by @F2brewers, I had no idea we could edit the ISO's to bump threads with new comments to the top. Obviously that's not applicable anymore.