Question for Homebrewers about batch consistency

I personally think it's mostly about palate shift and some of the environmental factors you mentioned. Having said that, as a homebrewer I don't really care if this batch is the same as the last batch (as long as it's better : ) More art than science for me. Cheers

 

I think every system is going to be a bit different when it comes to the ease of replication. That being said, I've used the same system for years, and even though it's pretty easy to dial in OG, FG, etc. I swear that two batches with the same exact recipe using the same process with taste significantly different.

 

Great question! I never make the same beer twice in a row. I'll make a great batch, enjoy it, drink it all up, then brew it again maybe only after 3 or 4 years have passed. I have found that repeatability in this fashion is like zero, i.e., the new batch never seems quite as good as the one I made a few years ago. I suppose I ought to start brewing my "flagship" recipes more often and stop experimenting so much!? I'm getting close to the point now where I've brewed almost every recipe and every style that I want to, so, soon I will have more experience to share on this topic. But, in my current experience, I think there are sufficient differences from season to season and batch to batch to tentatively conclude that each batch is indeed a bit different than the last. Exact duplication of an old favorite recipe is not always as easy as one might think, even with the best of recipe notes. That's been my experience so far. Others will not agree and that's fine -- they probably have more experience than I do with trying to be repeatable. Personally I am more of an explorer / frontiersman, always trying something different. But I'm coming around soon to trying to become more repeatable. So, we'll see.

 

One thing I notice is that hop aroma tends to change fairly noticeably, where malt flavors and aromas seem a bit more consistent for me. For example, sometimes cascades seem very grapefruit forward to me, and other times is more of a general citrus aroma. Centennial can be flowery/herbal or citrusy. Whether that is my own tastes and preferences changing over time/lack of recollection or if it's truly differences in the crops from year to year, I couldn't say.

That said, one thing I frequently think about is that in the wine community, the expectation is that grapes will taste different from year to year, or even from one hill to the next. The differences are celebrated and discussed freely as the consensus is that agricultural products will vary greatly depending on soil/temp/sun/humidity/rain/etc. I haven't come up with a good reason why hops wouldn't be prone to variations either.

 

I would agree with Curt that hops have a broad range of variability, from year to year, yard to yard. No one should probably ever say that the love or hate this hop or that hop, as they differ so much. That being said, Simcoe *usually* sucks.

 

There is actually a lot more involved than just the brewing process itself. I would say it is a combination of both 1 and 2, plus some others that really impact it more than 1 & 2. Yes, they are made from an agricultural product that varies. The same hops on different years/same year different farm/same year and farm different hill on the farm can impact the beers flavor and aroma. Yes, a brewer can get fairly close, if not spot on from batch to batch, especially over the course of the year if they buy and store their ingredients from the same source. But there will always be some sort of shift in the product to some degree. Maybe the yeast didn't attenuate the same and there are a few more ABV or a few less. Maybe the Chinook was left open a little too long and went from pine and citrus to cat piss. Maybe the brewery just installed new fermentors, or a larger system so they are working out the kinks and adjusting the recipes.

The more important factors are time, temp, and transportation. How old was the beer when it left the brewery? What happened to the beer after it left the brewery? Was the truck refrigerated or not? Was it the middle of February or August? How far did it travel sloshing around (that can impact CO2 levels and scrub some hop aromatics)? Did it come right off a 2 hour bumpy truck ride and go on tap immediately? Did it come off the same ride and sit in the back of a warm room for 3 months? When they server said it was a fresh batch, is that just tapped it today after 3 months in a warm room fresh, or is it, kegged 2 days ago, driven accross town, and sat one day in our freezer stabilizing tapped as you walked in the front door fresh? If it is a bottled beer, was it driven 3 hours in the back of a brewers truck on a sunny day? Did it sit on a room temp display for 4 weeks? What kind of lights have they been stored under? Temps? Time? When the drinker bought it on lunch did he leave it to bake in the trunk for 5 hours before taking it home? Back seat in the sun?

 

Beer is indeed made from agricultural products which will vary (year to year, farm to farm, etc.). It is indeed possible to produce consistent beer with varying products; that is where the skill of the brewer comes into play.

There is a great discussion on pages 239 – 240 of For the Love of Hops by Stan Hieronymus where the headbrewer of Bear Republic (Richard Norgrove) mentions how he makes a consistent beer of Racer 5 IPA given that hops vary with the location they are grown, the particular year’s crop, and other variables. His last quote is revealing: “So, how do I make Racer taste the same when hops change? That’s what makes it craft.”

Cheers!

 

Hard to talk about a concept like this in the abstract. Is a beer like Sierra Nevada Pale Ale reasonably consistent? Certainly, SN puts a huge amount of resources into quality control. This means testing the raw ingredients, controlling as many variables as possible, treating the water, etc. whatever they can to make every batch taste just like every other. Likely changes in perception for beers like this are a result of palate changes, although age/treatment of the beer post-packaging can have a huge influence. Other breweries (like Avery) pride themselves on dumping any beer that is even slightly off spec, something many up-start breweries can’t afford to do.

Other beer recipes shift over time for a variety of reasons. One of the brewers from Ballast Point told me how many changes the Sculpin hop bill has been through based on crops, contracts, scaling etc. It started as Amarillo and Simcoe, but some batches have had no Amarillo and others no Simcoe. If you think Sculpin hasn’t changed much over the years, credit the brewers for doing a great job! Other brewers intentionally change their target to keep pace with consumer tastes, or try to brew beers that are more to their own tastes.

Then you can talk about beers that are almost impossible to brew consistently, ultra-strong, barrel-aged, soured etc. Blending is the main way that brewers try to dampen fluctuations. Although others try to embrace the changes and make “the best” beer each release, even if it doesn’t taste the same.

Agricultural, supplier (maltsters, hop processor), personnel, brew-house, water, etc. changes are all factors that influence consistency. There is certainly batch-to-batch changes, but most of them are likely more over the years as changes stack-up. Which is likely one reason it tends to be more obvious in annual releases.

 

It's not even year-to-year, it's farm-to-farm and lot-to-lot. That's a big reason why once you get to a certain scale you go to Yakima to pick out the Cascades you want to fulfill your contract. There are brewers who don't pick the "best" hops, they want the hops that fit the profile that that beer calls for. As homebrewers we're a bit at the mercy of what we happen to buy...

 

As a homebrewer, consistency is pretty much unattainable to me. I am plagued by the variability in the ingredients I get, which could mean variability of a particular crop or availability of that ingredient (I may have to swap something for another etc). I don't have great ability to control temps so that also plays a role. Plus things like attenuation, boil size... all these things are too much for me to care about controlling.

At the commercial scale its different. If their 2-row isn't up to spec they can reject it. They can test their ingredients in a way that just isn't feasible for homebrewers. They can control their processes to the milliliter. So, they should be as consistent as possible. As others have said, particularly with hop variation year to year, this can be tough especially for smaller brewers with more restricted access to ingredients and for breweries who push the envelope with experimental styles-- those inherently come with a harder baseline to reach.

This is why I have the utmost respect for the macro brewers out there. Unlike many on BA, I think what they do deserves praise. Their batches are virtually identical not only year to year but decade to decade. If its not, that batch won't ever reach consumers. People know exactly what they are getting, and that's valuable.

 

we like to believe that the mystery of brewing plays an important role in the making of beer. the whole idea that the ancients were revered for their ability to make beer and it was practically magic. now we know a lot more about the world around us, but we still know there is a bit of magic involved.

the making of beer, actually brewing beer, is a series of complex and simple chemical and physical reactions. getting all of the various ingredients and processes in order is what makes beer. there can be some changes in the ingredients, but a skilled brewer can measure the changes and adjust accordingly, and then scientifically measure the outcome. if they want to. many homebrewers enjoy the magic and are satisfied if their efforts produce an enjoyable if unique beer. pro brewers need to turn a profit however, and can't really screw around each day.

using the exact same techniques is what the ancients did. making small modifications is what the modern brewer does.

yeast. now that shit is legitimate magic.
Cheers.

 

Below is something I posted previously concerning consistency of brewing with Anheuser Busch as a ‘case study’:

“Permit me to discuss the brewing process of Anheuser-Busch.

Firstly let me provide the caveat that I am personally not a fan of Budweiser beer (Bud, Bud Light, etc.). I prefer a beer that has more flavor and character than is found in Budweiser products.

With that caveat out of the way I have great respect for the overall process that Anheuser-Busch exercises for the production of their beers. The overall process is overarching and extensive:

Ingredients

Anheuser-Busch owns their own hop farm in Idaho (Elk Mountain Farm) and it is my understanding that this is the largest hop farm in the world. By owning this hop farm, AB has ultimate control over the hops they use. Yes, I recognize that not too many hops are used in the production of a beer like Bud but what hops are used are of high quality.

AB also owns two malting plants, one in Idaho Falls, ID and the other in Moorehead, MN. By owning their own malting companies they have ultimate control of the malting process used to produce their beers. I recognize that there is not much in the way of malt flavor in a beer like Budweiser but that is because that is intentional; they are striving to create a light colored and light flavored product.

AB also purchases adjuncts like rice for Bud and for Busch they use corn, rice and/or dextrose syrup. For the case of rice in Bud they purchase high quality rice (this was discussed before on BA).

For ingredients that AB purchases from outside vendors/farms they are very selective and exercise great diligence in their purchasing process.

Ingredient Evaluation via Brewing

This was already discussed via the Research Pilot Brewery in St, Louis

Production Brewing

It is popular to characterize the brewing at the AB breweries as just ‘pushing buttons’. Yes, there is indeed a lot of automated process control at AB breweries but there is a lot of process behind how this is implemented. There are human beings (e.g., highly trained and experienced brewers) making the decisions on how best to implement the automated process control. Those brewers also make the decisions, using the best instruments in the world – their palates along with testing results, on when it is OK to:

· Transfer from the primary fermenter to the lagering tank

· Package the beer after lagering

· Etc.

It is also the brewers who decide if other process steps take place like blending batch A with batch B to create a more consistent final product.

Corporate Taste Testing/Quality Control

Every day beer (and other taste samples) are flown from the AB breweries to St. Louis for taste test evaluation. In this manner the consistent quality of AB products is monitored and maintained. The taste testers fill out a score sheet so they have metrics for ongoing quality control and assurance

Distribution & Sales

AB works very closely with their partner Wholesale Distributors to ensure the product is properly handled throughout the sales chain including removing old product from retailers.



I am sure that I forget some other critical aspects but I think the above is a fair accounting of what AB does to make consistent product.

There may be a time when craft breweries can claim that they exercise the same level of effort and care in producing their products to what AB does but that day is not here yet.

It just so happens that they produce a product that is not consistent with my personal palate and desires. Luckily for AB (and MillerCoors) there are millions and millions of other beer consumers who do want to purchase the products that they took great care to produce.

Cheers!

 

Some pro beers are very consistent. Some are unintentionally inconsistent. Some modify the recipe over time without telling the consumer.

With homebrew, the grains and yeast are consistent. Some hops are fairly consistent and others vary quite a bit. This isn't a problem for me since I never brew the exact same beer twice.

 

Water can vary, so good breweries monitor the water for TDS, mineral levels, pH shifts, taste, and aroma. Sometimes water is RO filtered then adjusted.

Malt can vary from the same source as there are lot variations. Brewers look at the analysis sheet, and can run lab tests on a delivered lot of malt accept or reject.

Yeast has a huge influence, and some breweries have ways to monitor and propagate new pitches as needed. They monitor for contamination in the lab. Check viability in the lab. When it is necessary a new pitch is ordered up for the next batch.

Hops are all over the place as said. Most would be surprised at the variation in Cascade. The newer hops are more tightly monitored and tracked, and have less drift. Big breweries buy their hops by selecting from a field (that is happening now). The hop brokers blend hops that are pelletized and then go to the contracts.

Brewers blend beers all of the time. A brewery that has a X sized brew house and Y sized fermenters, Y=4X, fills that fermenter with 4 brews and gets consistency. If analysis and sensory panels find slight variation between fermenters, those could be blended for consistency.

 

I think that for the big brewers (Sierra Nevada, Sam Adams, Bells, New Belgium,...) who have the ability to be consistent, any perceived differences are in the drinkers heads. Look at how often someone will say that Celebration was "spicier" last year or that rye makes a "spicy" beer or Hopslam was a lot better last year,... and so on. Paraphrasing Simon and Garfunkel, A lot of people taste what they want to taste and disregard the rest. As mentioned above, there might be differences from beer to beer but a lot of that is how it got to the drinker vs. what it was like when it left the brewery.

With that said, there appears to be a lot of smaller breweries that could not be consistent if their life depended on it, hence the BA push for "quality" and all that.

Interesting topic, thanks for getting the ball rolling. P.S. You should start brewing now