ISO / FT threads that state 'contact for ratios'

...just another way to run an auction behind the scenes...

 

Agreed that it's absolutely ridiculous, ESPECIALLY when you see a simple black and white trade offer such as:

FT: Vanilla Rye ISO: Heady Topper

What is so difficult about putting up a hard number that you're looking for?

 

Totally agree, trade posts should be as specific as possible when rarer beers are being traded, or these just become behind the scenes auctions. Or if people have a lot to trade or a lot they are looking for, then put $4$ to remove the appearance of an auction.

 

You definitely saw "BM me for ratios" threads before... you know.

FFS, that feature change has become the invincible boogeyman of the trading forums. Every problem in the trading forums is apparently because people can't chime in any more.

But regarding the post in question, there are two ways to look at it:

1) The cynical way of looking at it is that it's a way to run an auction behind the scenes. Or at the very least, don't want to preclude the fact that someone might give them a case of Heady Topper for that VR even if they'd be willing to accept half that ratio. I know people have done this, because I BM'd a guy for ratios on Beer X for Beer Y and his literal response was "well, it looks like the going rate is 4 X for 1 Y"

2) The optimistic way of looking at it is that a person either isn't sure what they want and don't want to commit to a specific number, because they don't want to scare any traders. Maybe they would like to get a given amount but could be persuaded to take less if someone offers it.

I guess it's a little annoying, but ultimately, someone has to commit to a specific ratio, whether it's the OP or someone responding to his post. The responder is just as capable of deciding on a ratio that he/she is comfortable with and declining the deal if they aren't on the same page. To my example about Beer X and Y, I wasn't comfortable with the ratio, so I declined. If someone else was comfortable with it, more power to that guy.

 

This.

On top of the greatly increased number of ridiculous offers, I swear the frequency of behind-the-scenes auctions (intentional or ad hoc) has gone up significantly too. I'm guessing it's because of the higher proportion of newbie/semi-clueless traders operating with little feedback, but whatever the reason it's pretty annoying.

 

What part of the bolded section is not a silent auction?

 

The problem is, unless it becomes a specific punishable offense that is regularly enforced, people aren't going to care about a couple people in this thread complaining about it. If I was an auction trader, I certainly wouldn't. Especially now that people can't comment and call me out on it.

So everyone here is kicking rocks basically unless something changes.

 

The person listing the auction doesn't want to commit to a hard number because they don't want to scare away any potential traders or don't know what ratio they want and not because they want to trade with the highest bidder?

 

The people who treat the trade forum like the stock market and an auction site have ruined it for people who just want to trade some beer but are not 100% sure what they want.

A post like this could be very innocent, but wouldn't survive for very long:

FT : Trillium IPA ISO: Your local IPAs

This kind of post could be someone just looking to try some new things they don't even know about, but could be interpreted as an auction. Back in the good ole days these posts were commonplace.

 

I think these are generally fine...its the lists that have 10+beers FT (of wildly varying levels of rarity etc), similar amount ISO, and "bm for ratios" that are basically always straight up auctions

 

Yep, your right. My example is pretty simplistic. I am sure there are a certain % of people where vagueness is just because they don't know exactly what they want, but there are also some that are vague on purpose, especially when it is a beer that is in high demand.

 

I think the normal problem ones are the posts that say something like FT: BA Abraxas ISO: BCBS Variants and says BM for ratios... (Scans first 5 or so posts in ISO:FT board ...)

 

Yep, that one will go to the highest bidder.

 

This was a small problem before, that is now an epidemic. Don't take my word for it, scan the front page. There's been about 10 trades just this week I wanted to jump on, only to find vague auction-like language upon clickthrough (so I instantly jump ship).

Being flexible, open to different combos is one thing. Just outright not listing a single ratio is another.

It already is:

 

Just straight up reporting these auctions now when I see them but it seems like it's fighting an uphill battle. Not sure if it does anything but its better than sending a BM that sounds like this:
Hey there, just wanted to inform you that I'm under the impression this is an auction. Good luck, I hope you squeeze every drop out of this beer and it goes to the highest bidder

^ waste of my time and energy.

 

I'm not sure I understand the question. Nothing about the bolded section *has* to be a part of the silent auction. Say the OP of a trade doesn't put the ratio in their post, but has a specific ratio in mind that they want. People respond to the OP asking for the ratio and he tells them what it is. If the people responding to the OP don't like the ratio, they can decline to trade. Eventually, maybe someone comes along, hears the ratio and is fine with it, so a trade moves forward. In that scenario, no silent auction has occurred.

Perhaps the confusion lies in the fact that it would be a silent auction if the OP, when contacted by potential traders, were to reply with "tell me what ratio you are comfortable with" instead of his targeted ratio. My point wasn't that the responding person should offer up their ratio first--only that they should have a specific ratio they are comfortable with in mind.

The optimist might suggest that one advantage of omitting a ratio from a trade post is that if the OP responds with "I want a case of HT for my VR" to the first 10 people who message him and gets no interest, when the 11th person contacts him wondering what his ratio is, he can ask for a lower ratio, having seen that he is asking for too much. This seems like a fair thing to do, although it could lead to people setting their starting ratio ask way to high in the interest of bringing it down to the maximum possible value they can get for their FT beer.

Either way, I understand that omitting ratios enables the possibility of a behind-the-scenes auction. I was just playing a little devil's advocate to point out that it doesn't *have* to mean that.

Just because you don't post the ratio doesn't mean you are asking for bids, even though you could certainly abuse it in such a way.

And again, I'm playing a little devil's advocate here--pointing out that not posting a specific ratio in the trade post doesn't *have* to mean that someone is conducting an auction. And if someone who doesn't post a ratio responds to your BM with a response to the effect of "make me an offer", then report their ass for conducting a behind-the-scenes auction.

The only tried-and-true way to combat auctions is for users who interact with the people conducting the auctions to refuse to trade with them and/or report them. If everyone did this, then people attempting to conduct auctions wouldn't have any power. Part of their ability to successfully conduct auctions is because people are willing to participate in the "bidding" process.

 

The one issue I am having now is that I have no idea what anything trades for now. I put up a request for The Lizard King, I believe it comes in 4 Packs, but I don't know the cost or even what anyone else is even trading for it.

 

Trade what you have for something you want. Why does it matter what anyone else is trading it for?

 

Are people getting punished for it?