Brett my saison

I have brewed beers using Brett but not a Saison.

Are you wedded to the idea of using 3711? That yeast is a beast and using that yeast alone will get you a FG lower than 1.004. All of the Saisons I brewed using 3711 finished 1.001 (with an OG of around 1.058). I would suggest that you use 3724 instead.

You made mention of “…good brett strains that put off tropical fruit flavors”. It is my understanding that you will only achieve these sorts of flavors if you solely brew with Brett. By pitching Brett late in the game (e.g., around 1.010) you are more likely to obtain funky flavors.

The Brett strain that I brewed with was Brett B and I enjoyed the funky flavors it produced; I did a co-pitch of Brett B and Belgian Ale yeast (the Orval strain).

Cheers!

 

Well, I am not sure that mostly fermenting with 3724 and then 'finishing up' with Brett B will necessarily result in "subtle brett characteristics". It is my understanding that the Brett pitched later will 'process' some of the Sacch yeast produced flavors into flavors that are sometimes described as being funky.

Hopefully Mike (@OldSock) will chime into this thread and provide his wisdom; he is much more experienced in these matters.

Cheers!

 

Hopefully Mike (Oldsock) could better answer that question.

For my Brett'ed beers where I did a co-pitch I purposefully fermented warm (pitched at 70 degrees but then ramped up to the mid-70's over 5-6 days) and that worked fine for my beers.

Cheers!

 

You can still get less funky / higher fruity character from Brett in secondary depending on the strain. The funk takes some time to kick in and convert the phenols to the barnyard and hay we are used to. You can get some fairly fruity character from the Brett from a more ester forward strain of yeast and Brett. Also, if you add at bottling it will evolve over time from fruity to funky.

Check out the list of strains here (not comprehensive by any means).

 

Justin, thanks for that additional detail; it is a phenol to funk conversion process.

The 'challenge' wrt a Saison is that all of the Saison strains that I have used tend to produce a fair amount of phenols so they will be present for the phenol to funk conversion.

Is there a Saison strain that you are aware of that produces lesser amounts of phenols? Is there a way to 'manage' the phenol production (e.g., ferment cooler)?

Cheers!

 

@JackHorzempa WY3726 Farmhouse seems to be less phenolic than the others, as well as WY3725 Biere de Garde (which is said to be the Fantome strain). There are so many Saison yeasts out there now with the large influx of new yeast companies. If I were @Lukass I would be tempted to ferment to FG, add the fruit, let it finish, then bottle with it. The conversion process of esters seems to work faster than the conversion of phenols so it will evolve through fruit to funk over time. That, and going for a Brett strain that is known for more fruity esters than funky phenolics would help as well. The pineapple from B. clauss/anamola strains seems to have minimal funk with it, maybe a little aged leather, but it takes time to develop.

 

Sounds like a good beer for 100% Brett. The more of the fermentation the Brett does, the more esters it will produce. Adding it after a phenolic primary will get you more classic earthy/funky flavors. 100% Brett will also be ready sooner, so no waiting for the slow secondary fermentation. Brett C could work, or the new White Labs Trois Vrai?

If you do want to go your original route, add the Brett and give it a few months head start before adding the fruit. Fruit fades, so I like to wait to add it until one or two months before packaging (depending on the beer and the form of the fruit).

I'm a big fan of acid in fruit beers too, here is a batch I have on tap now that was soured, then 100% Brett, followed by apricot, and finally Citra/Amarillo dry hops: http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2015/07/apricots-lactobacillus-and-hops.html

Low-mid 60s is perfect for Brett, so no worries there!

 

My Brett strains hit about 92% app att when I use 8-10% sugar. 85% when all malt. The starter size is dependent on the strain & the company. My house Brett B strain grows fairly fast, and finishes in under 2 weeks.

 

If you ferment with 100% brett and want the beer to finish in a month instead of several months, you will want to pitch a lot of brett. A lot more than 2 billion cells in a 2L starter. The suggested pitch rate for this type of beer is more than a regular ale.

 

Use a pitching rate calculator for hybrid pitch rates and it will finish in 2 weeks.

 

Plus the apricots.

 

Yes, forgot about that, 2 weeks for the Brett to attenuate fully, plus another couple for the fruit. Good catch. Thanks.

 

FWIW, I'm a fan of White Labs 670 (full disclosure...after years of making saisons, it's basically the only yeast I use for saisons now), which is a combo of a Brett and a Saison yeast. It may not give you a heavy tropical fruit, but I think it ferments well at 68, produces a subtle yet balaced Brett and Saison profile, it finishes up/ready to bottle in as little as a month and ages amazingly in bottles. Many don't like this yeast blend for not producing enough Brett characteristics, but I think it works absolutely perfect for hoppy/dry hopped saisons (I'm a big Wicked Weed fan and find it makes comparable saisons to their hoppy saisons). It works really well with Mosaic and Citra and other fruity/juicy hops IMO...I'm brewing an El Dorado saison with it in the morning actually. Give it a try at some point on a hoppy saison, I doubt you'll be dissapointed!

 

Just make the AP saison in recipe forum. You won't be sorry.

 

@DrMindbender wlp670 gave me no brett at all initially, but you are dead on with letting it sit in bottles. I brewed a hoppy saison wwith that strain and was displeased with it initially. A random bottle popped up a year later and it had some good funk to it. The downside of course was the hops had faded, old hops ruined it. I still prefer wlp saison1 and cs brett dregs for my saisons.