What is it about Vermont?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by MichialTanner1, Nov 8, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Stevedore

    Stevedore Grand Pooh-Bah (5,096) Nov 16, 2012 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I think Vermont is exceptional in how much pride they take in their own home-grown products. That covers the gamut, not just beer, but also dairy, maple syrup, cheese, etc. They take the concept of small, artisan, hand-crafted, whatever term you want to use, seriously. Both times I visited, I was just fascinated by how the small business presence just seemed so larger than life; on the other hand, they are very dependent on tourism as well. So there's that. It's not a particularly wealthy state by any means.

    Being a midwesterner, I definitely romanticized my experience visiting that part of New England. There was a lot of Thoreau et al. in the background for sure.
     
  2. nc41

    nc41 Initiate (0) Sep 25, 2008 North Carolina
    Trader

    Asheville is great, it would be better if I was 25 again too. Great beer bars, great food, good beer, but few everyday outstanding beers. Like I said I'm not a funk/ sour guy so Weeds Funkitorium wouldn't interist me., but Asheville is just a fun place to drink beer and hang out. Vt is a great beer place, Waterbury and a 30 mile radius is hop head heaven.
     
  3. HorseheadsHophead

    HorseheadsHophead Grand Pooh-Bah (3,732) Sep 15, 2014 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    And Vermont and ice cream. Ben and Jerry's, anyone? Vermont seems to excel at crafting dairy and farm related products, especially ones that require a lot of time and attention. Perhaps beer, with its barley, hops, and yeast, naturally became a part of that circle.
     
    Fargrow and MichialTanner1 like this.
  4. PA-Michigander

    PA-Michigander Grand Pooh-Bah (3,372) Nov 10, 2013 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    From what I've seen as far as trading, no they don't. Often times they may trade for quality/limited stouts which, IMO, is where VT lacks but can use bulk Heady if nothing else to land almost any bottle they want. Which is a cool thing for the locals. Wish my drive wasn't 8 hours. Would love a steady Heady hook.
     
  5. 4DAloveofSTOUT

    4DAloveofSTOUT Grand Pooh-Bah (4,064) Nov 28, 2008 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Portland is less than 3 hours from Hill Farmstead. Thats way too close, to not consider going to Portland. That is a great beer town.
     
    duchessedubourg likes this.
  6. FrancisT

    FrancisT Initiate (0) Apr 11, 2008 Vermont

    Send sours...please. This is where we are lacking for sure.
     
  7. leantom

    leantom Initiate (0) Nov 20, 2011 Indiana

    I find this statement somewhat ludicrous, having grown up in NE and visited Vermont very frequently in my childhood (Smuggler's Notch, Sugarbrush, et al.). For the life of me, I can't fathom why people think Vermont residents are as educated as residents of other states.

    I think Vermont's association with education (or educated residents) is solely based on its proximity with other highly-educated NE states like Connecticut and Massachusetts.

    Vermont's per capita GDP isn't even in the top thirty (comparable with Indiana and Tennessee and much lower than that of Kansas; I believe that the only poorer NE state is Maine); it's GDP is also much lower than the U.S. average per capita GDP. The state also has the 5th highest rate of residents on government assistance, and one of the highest suicide rates in the country.

    I have no idea why Vermonters are thought of as more intelligent than residents of other states. I believe their level of education is probably comparable with that of other states' residents.
     
  8. captaincoffee

    captaincoffee Pooh-Bah (2,218) Jul 10, 2011 Virginia
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    For fun, I'll disagree with the original post and most of the responses...with due respect to good beer.
    First of all, is Vermont really even an example of an area with an exceptionally high density of breweries? Instead of state-by-state comparisons, how about comparing it to something else? San Diego County has a brewery density of over 25 per 1000 people compared to a mere 8.6 for Vermont. Narrow down Oregon or Colorado to zones the size or population of Vermont, and you would likely have areas with much higher density as well.
    That aside, I believe all these brewery-dense areas (including Vermont) are examples of business clustering or agglomeration. Simply put, a couple of successful types of a business in one area will draw similar businesses to the area. This is often due to economies of scale, but can also be because of improved networking, sales and/or distribution opportunities, etc. If you were looking to open a small brewery, would you take a chance on an area with no established craft brew industry or sales record? More likely, you would choose to open your business in an area with both an established business network and rising growth trend in sales.
    Bottom line, pretty fall colors, maple syrup, and other "Vermonty" reasons are likely only tiny factors.
     
  9. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,157) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    In Memoriam Pooh-Bah Trader

    Well thought out piece, which kinda tries to gather a buncha variables to try and squeeze the reason for something that, IMHO, probably has a much, much more simple explanation.

    It's like trying to decide why there are so many tall oak trees in a small area, and theorizing all kinds of ideas related to weather, soil, sun angle, water table, water pH, etc., and comparing the area to other oak habitats, and missing the obvious that it was the first area colonized by the tallest tree, completely by chance, and that the other areas also would eventually grow as many equally tall oaks once squirrels forgot enough acorns to accomplish that.

    Greg Noonan brewed in Vermont. I don't know whether that has anything to do with anything, but I am willing to bet it is far closer to the mark than trying to relate fall colors, population density, or business clustering/agglomeration, etc. to fine beer brewing skills

    Chances are in future all the surrounding areas will have equally great beer too, but no one will mention it since there won't be anything to seem distinctive about that.
     
    dennis3951, TongoRad and jamesewelch like this.
  10. captaincoffee

    captaincoffee Pooh-Bah (2,218) Jul 10, 2011 Virginia
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Full agreement. Stuff happens...it is what it is.
     
    cavedave likes this.
  11. njcraftguy

    njcraftguy Savant (1,070) Apr 6, 2015 New Jersey

    Some friends recently questioned VT beers - I talk them up quite a bit. So we did a blind tasting the other night. A friend had brought me back some Heady and Mastermind from Fiddlehead so we took them and added in Jai Alai from Cigar City, Medusa from Defiant, Vine Shine from Magnify, Centennial from Founders as well as Pulse Wave by Grimm. In the end it was Heady, Mastermind and Pulse Wave as the top 3 in that order. There are other great IPA's out there but there's a reason for all the hype. BTW - Pulse Wave was very close, I ranked it 2nd.
     
    telejunkie likes this.
  12. mfowler314

    mfowler314 Devotee (375) Aug 12, 2015 New York

    I found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_educational_attainment

    Looks like Vermont is in the top 10 in each of three categories. So maybe not the highest in education but certainly well educated.
     
    cavedave likes this.
  13. captaincoffee

    captaincoffee Pooh-Bah (2,218) Jul 10, 2011 Virginia
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I read this (the bachelor's and advanced degree stats) as being behind neighbors Massachusetts and Connecticut, on par with New York, and ahead of Maine. In other words, average for the NE. It certainly doesn't explain what sets Vermont apart in regards to the OP's original post.
    On the other hand, it is always nice to look at stats on Texas so everyone else can feel superior.
     
  14. StJamesGate

    StJamesGate Grand Pooh-Bah (3,766) Oct 8, 2007 New York
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Now we're on to something...

    And Vinnie Cilruzo was making IPA in San Diego county (well, nearby) in 1994.
    Bridgeport started brewing IPA in Portland in 1996.

    Could it be that the craft beer hotbeds now are the places with roots going back 20 years?
     
    Brolo75, jamesewelch and russpowell like this.
  15. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    I pointed out Noonan above. He was the guy who brought the Conan yeast back from England. John Kimmich worked at his brewery, along with others.
    http://www.vermontbrewery.com/news/3-anniversary25

    Bell's is 30 years old now. There are many breweries and Brewers here in MI that used to work at Bell's.
     
  16. iwantmorehops

    iwantmorehops Zealot (739) Sep 25, 2010 Vermont

    I guess its easy to be out of touch if all you do is write about beer and forget to go out and enjoy it.
    The 70-75% bit just shows that he hasn't traded much or traveled enough to know how good we have it.
     
  17. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    Can you explain the density numbers, they don't make sense to me in their magnitude. 25 per 1000 does not make sense if one knows the SD county population.
     
  18. TongoRad

    TongoRad Grand Pooh-Bah (3,884) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I think what @cavedave said above, about being at it the longest is the greatest part of what seems to be happening. But it's not simply Vermont, New England itself was on the cutting edge when small scale independent breweries started appearing. Geary and Pugsley started in the 80s, and New England seemed to have been very receptive to the concept.
     
    twizzard, WillQC4Beer, Ranbot and 2 others like this.
  19. russpowell

    russpowell Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,292) May 24, 2005 Arkansas
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Interesting thread, makes me want to road trip up there, right now...
     
    TongoRad, cavedave and iwantmorehops like this.
  20. rgordon

    rgordon Pooh-Bah (2,701) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Vermont has always been peopled by an interesting and independent citizenry. Creativity oozes from the place.
     
    telejunkie and cavedave like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.