Do I have my first infection?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by GetMeAnIPA, Jan 5, 2016.

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  1. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    Brewed my first stout last Monday night. Just checked the gravity and the beer had a smell of vinegar as well as a slight taste of it. The Gravity reading came in at 1.024 on a target of 1.020. When I was cooling the wort I noticed a slight drop from the hose connectors on my immersion wort chiller into the boil kettle. The wort temp was still around 160. It's only been 7 days so maybe the yeast still need some time to clean up. I've had IPAs that taste like cider but turn out great so maybe this is a stout fermentation flavor? I opened the top of the fermenter and didn't see any krausen and the beer seemed to have an oil slick look to it.

    I used cocoa powder in the boil at ten minutes pitched 2 vials of WLP002 with a stater. Currently,
    Have the beer fermenting around 68 as I stepped up the temp a few degrees the last day or so.

    hopefully, this is just a case of rdwahahb, which I am doing but I sure hope I don't have my first infection.
     
  2. icepick

    icepick Initiate (0) Feb 17, 2008 California

    Brewed many stouts mostly using us04 dry yeast. Never noticed a vinegar smell or Taste but then again I don't usually check gravity for at least 2 weeks. Let it chill and check it again in a week could be something from the yeast. Also I hope you put some lactose in there with the cocoa powder. I made a chocolate milk stout for a friends wedding before and the cocoa powder adds a ton of bitterness if you don't have any lactose to back it up. Then again I also used a pound and a half of cocoa powder lol.
     
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  3. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    I wish I didn't Check it so soon but I have a friend's bucket fermenting with mine (as I have a temp control fermentation setup) and thought wtf if I gotta take mine out anyways might as well check on it.

    No lactose as I only added 4 ozs of cocoa powder. I didn't taste much bitterness in the post boil gravity reading or the one I took today. However, I'll take bitterness over vinegar!
     
  4. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    Doing some research on vinegar off flavors and it seems that Acetobacter infection needs bacteria and oxygen. I would seem that's stater got infected and when I aerated the wort it produced acetobacter.

    Anyways, hope I am wrong.
     
  5. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    FWIW Acetobacter is the bacteria. It can make acetic acid, which tastes like vinegar.
     
  6. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    Yeah, I probably just worded it wrong. Think there is any chance this will clear up or most likely an infection?
     
  7. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    RDWHAHB. Give it another week. It could be a combination of different things all working in tandem to create an aroma and flavor that your mind is deciphering as vinegar, but really isn't. 1 week in is too early to know much. There are fermentation characteristics that will eventually clean up like Diacteyl and Acetaldehyde, odd hop compounds that haven't smoothed out, alcohols that will smooth out, yeast in suspension. Give it another week to do its thing and taste it again. The other thing you have working in your favor is that fermentation produces CO2 which drives off the oxygen that the yeast don't absorb for fermentation, meaning you shouldn't have any oxygen for the Acetobacter to use to make the acetic acid. If the airlock were dry a week from now or the lid was off for an extended period of time, then that might be a likely culprit. If it is Acetobacter and it is making acetic acid, then there is nothing you can do to stop it at this point.
     
  8. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I agree with @jbakajust1. I'd wait and see. It really sounds kind of early for an infection. Also, acetic acid can/does exist in normal fermentations, at least in some... in hefeweizens it combines with isoamyl alcohol to form isoamyl acetate, which is where the banana flavor/aroma comes from.
     
  9. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    Not sure if this matters but I did add some 88% lactic acid in the mash. I used 5 ML for 14 lbs of grains. An amount used before.

    Sounds like I'll just wait and see. I thought I was past jumping to conclusions when I just need to be patient.
     
  10. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    You used 5ml before in a stout grain bill??

    I typically don't add any acid to stouts or porters because the roasted dark grains really drop the mash ph on they're own. I am building from distilled water tho.
     
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  11. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    I'll typically just add pickling lime and baking soda to stouts because I actually need to raise the ph due to the roasted grains.
     
  12. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    Maybe I messed with my water too much but I added baking soda to increase the hardness so i then used acid to lower the ph.

    Used 5 ml for pale beers before. Meaning I never got an off flavor from acid at that amount before.
     
  13. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Pooh-Bah (2,552) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

    But the roasted grains are acidic too, so adding acid to an already acidic wort would compound the acidity.
     
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  14. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Why did you want to increase the hardness?

    Lactic acid shouldn't taste like vinegar. It's more of a clean tartness when there's enough to notice.
     
  15. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah


    Looking at various water profiles for stouts and most recommended HCO3 to be around 200ppm. Mine was around 100ppm, so by adding a few grams of Soda it bumped it up to Range closer to 200ppm.
     
  16. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    Are you using a water spreadsheet??

    5ml of lactic acid seems like a lot in a roasted beer unless your adding a ton of baking soda also to boost ph.
     
  17. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Okay...yes, you definitely want a lot of alkalinity (not hardness per se, but now I see what you mean) for a stout, to counteract the acidity of the roasted grains. Which is what makes the lactic acid addition puzzling...it defeats the purpose of the baking soda.
     
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  18. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    Yes, I am using a water spreadsheet. I'll have to double check my information. I could have messed up. I remember getting like a 5.6 ph with just my water and grains. I used only 3 grams of baking soda. I was trying to use lactic acid as it has a neutral flavor to lower ph.
     
  19. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    I may have just enough knowledge about water to be dangerous but not to completely understand exactly what I am doing. I did more research when I did water additions in pale beers and just thought I can kinda do the same thing when I brewed the stout with the additions.
     
  20. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Initiate (0) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania

    I'm really thinking that this beer may be pretty low on the ph scale and that's what is giving you an impression of vinegar to your tastes. Perhaps the yeast kinda pooped out early due to being in an acidic environment?

    Water is a really tricky thing. Especially on darker beers.

    I'm assuming you don't have a ph meter?

    7 days seems like a short time frame for acetic acid to form unless your fermenter was allowing lots of oxygen in for acetobacter to blossom?
     
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