Brewery Yeast Choices

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by breadwinner, Jan 14, 2016.

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  1. breadwinner

    breadwinner Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2014 California

    Been thinking a lot about how yeast affects beer (which is to say: incredibly!) It seems to me -- and this is solely based on impression/anecdote -- that most breweries employ one yeast strain for a specific style. For example, for all of a brewery's ales, they may use their house ale yeast strain. Obviously, a brewery may use other yeast strains for other styles -- a hefeweizen yeast for hefes, for example, or a Belgian yeast strain for trappist-style beer. But, it seems like, within a given style, they'll stick to one strain.

    My questions are several fold. First, is this, in fact, the case? Do most breweries use the same strain for a given style? If so, why? What prevents Brewery A from making, for example, several different IPAs with several different ale yeast strains? Are there logistical issues to this?

    It just seems to me that oftentimes we might talk about changing the hop or malt profile of a beer, but why don't we also talk about changing yeast strains?
     
    #1 breadwinner, Jan 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2016
  2. ghostinthemachine

    ghostinthemachine Initiate (0) Aug 14, 2015 Louisiana

    This is from what I know about homebrewing. IPA, pale ale, amber ale etc rely on the hops and malts for flavors. Belgians, saisons, and sours are yeast driven. I brew three different saisons that use the exact malt and hops but taste completely different because of the yeasts. For IPAs I use US05 because it is a clean fermenting yeast.
     
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  3. breadwinner

    breadwinner Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2014 California

    Thx for the thoughts. I'm just wondering why IPA/pale/amber/etc. are assumed to rely on the hops and malt for flavor. Surely the yeast contributes something, no? And surely different ale yeasts contribute different characteristics? Or, at least, that was my assumption. Have you ever used something other than US05 and noticed a difference? Maybe it's time for an experiment!:slight_smile:
     
  4. BrewsingBuffalo

    BrewsingBuffalo Initiate (0) Jul 6, 2015 New York

    I'm certainly far from an expert, but I would think that level of ester production is a consideration when choosing a yeast strain? Someone more knowledgeable on the subject can correct me if this is wrong.
     
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  5. TongoRad

    TongoRad Grand Pooh-Bah (3,884) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    There are a lot of logistical reasons that hopefully pro brewers will get into in more detail, but they definitely try to brew more than one kind of beer with their 'house' strain. After a batch that yeast will get re-harvested and used again, so depending on the needs of the production schedule, you would like to go with it right away.

    Also- ease of use comes into play, as well as other factors of predictability, and all that.
     
  6. honkey

    honkey Maven (1,350) Aug 28, 2010 Arizona
    Trader

    It is hard to manage many yeast strains properly. At my brewery, we will not use yeast that has been stored for more than a week. We will use 8 generations. To keep the yeast healthy, it needs to be fermenting. If you have too many yeast strains, you will end up having to dump too much yeast and not getting as much use from it as we like to see. In the case of Hefe's and a few other yeast types, they are top cropping yeast strains and the most common type of fermenter in the U.S. Is not made for top cropping.
     
  7. BearsOnAcid

    BearsOnAcid Pooh-Bah (2,239) Mar 17, 2009 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    I'm not sure what you are talking about. I see breweries doing IPAs, hoppy saisons, hoppy lagers and brett IPAs all the time.
     
  8. breadwinner

    breadwinner Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2014 California

    I think my question was more: how many breweries do you see using several varieties of yeast for their IPAs alone? And how many different strains do they use for their saisons alone? And so forth... Not asking whether breweries use different yeast strains period, but different strains within the same style. (Brett is fine, but that's a different idea than using, say, Chico, 007, and 1098 in the same brewery all for hoppy ales. Does that make sense?)
     
  9. TongoRad

    TongoRad Grand Pooh-Bah (3,884) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Yes, but that can lead to higher costs for those beers due to a sort of 'planned' inefficient use of that yeast strain which may be an 'oddball' for your brewery.
     
  10. BearsOnAcid

    BearsOnAcid Pooh-Bah (2,239) Mar 17, 2009 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    Maybe they haven't used the specific yeast you are looking for but like I said I've seen plenty of breweries doing hop forward beers with different types of yeast.
     
  11. BearsOnAcid

    BearsOnAcid Pooh-Bah (2,239) Mar 17, 2009 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    Say your brewery has a flagship saison, a pale ale, and room for some specialty thing. Use the saison strain on the pale ale then maybe make a few Belgian pales in the rotation for a few batches until the yeast is done. Doesn't seem odd or inefficient to me.
     
  12. breadwinner

    breadwinner Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2014 California

    Yeah, I think I'm still not being clear apparently. I'm not wondering about making hoppy saisons, hoppy lagers, and hoppy ales, all in the same brewery. Nor am I looking for specific yeast strains. I'm asking about the different variations of the same type of yeast -- say, several different variations of lager yeast for a hoppy lager, or several different saison strains for a hoppy saison. Certainly, as you've noted, breweries may make a hoppy saison, a hoppy lager, and a hoppy ale, but those a 3 fairly distinctive yeast strains that are otherwise designated for those styles. I'm talking about using 3 different strains within the same "family" of yeast.
     
  13. TongoRad

    TongoRad Grand Pooh-Bah (3,884) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    What I was getting at was if you brought in something new for a seasonal or one-off beer, then that would have to be figured into the price point. Sure, if it was successful and your lineup starts rolling in that direction as well, then other beers could be planned around it. But like @honkey said above, they like to get 8 generations in before starting again with a new batch, otherwise it's not efficient use of the yeast.
     
  14. BearsOnAcid

    BearsOnAcid Pooh-Bah (2,239) Mar 17, 2009 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    So with your example how is a strain from American origin and the other from English origin in the same family?
     
  15. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Some breweries deliberately use a yeast strain that has minimal contribution to the flavors thereby relying on hops and malt for the flavors.
     
  16. BearsOnAcid

    BearsOnAcid Pooh-Bah (2,239) Mar 17, 2009 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    Sure, I'm considering a favorable scenario for the brewer. I don't feel like the random one-off/seasonal is very uncommon though. I see it all the time, even more in brewpubs.
     
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  17. WillemHC

    WillemHC Zealot (604) Jun 21, 2013 Utah

    The only brewery Im aware of that actually uses more than one yeast for all IPA's is Cellarmaker, otherwise I've seen most stick to one strain per style. I do feel like saison is a good example though where the brewery will experiment with different strains of brett and other yeasts to get certain yeast profiles. So I guess what I am saying is that beyond the brewery itself, its actually the style of beer that either begs or doesn't beg experimentation with specific yeast.
     
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  18. TongoRad

    TongoRad Grand Pooh-Bah (3,884) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Oh yeah- the smaller the brewer the more flexibility they have, especially if most of their sales is draught and they can whip something up without getting label approval and all that.
     
  19. breadwinner

    breadwinner Initiate (0) Mar 6, 2014 California

    I figured you'd complain about the term "family". You can call it something else if you prefer -- it was just an easier/quicker way of saying American and British ale yeasts are, generally, used for pales ales, IPAs, etc. Those beers are considered to be related or share some similarity. They are generally agreed upon to be different than, say, saisons. Therefore, it seems reasonable to group some American and British ale yeasts together, but not to group saison yeast and American ale yeast together.

    Yeah, Cellarmaker was one of the ones I had in mind. I think you've identified the rub, too: why do some styles of beer beg experimentation with yeasts but not others? As @drtth notes, and we've all heard said before, the idea is that you want pale ales and IPAs to be all about the malt and hops, so the goal is to get a really clean yeast strain. That said, a lot makers of the NE-style IPAs, going back as far as Heady, talk about the importance of yeast strain selection because of its contribution to the flavor profile -- all those peach esters and all that jazz. I think it'd be cool/interesting to see breweries do stuff like Cellarmaker and make hoppy beer with a variety of yeast strains, just to learn the differences, see which ones you prefer, etc.
     
  20. precariouslydaniel

    precariouslydaniel Initiate (0) Dec 29, 2013 Virginia

    I think often the house yeast contributes to a general, recognizable brewery flavor. I definitely know a Sierra Nevada of Lagunitas beer when I have one, and I think much of that comes from the familiar yeast flavors.
     
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