Surly: Todd the Axeman

Not necessarily the source of truth, since others mentioned that recipes can change from year to year and batch to batch, but Surly's website lists the following for Todd:

WEST COAST STYLE IPA
OCCASIONAL CANS AND KEGS
Our version of the West Coast Style IPA first brewed in collaboration with Amager Brewery in Denmark. Brewed with one malt, Golden Promise from the UK, with Citra and Mosaic hops. If you think Todd is a good brewer, you should hear him play his axe (guitar)! Named by Amager’s marketing director Henrik Papsø.

MALT
Golden Promise
HOPS
Citra, Mosaic

 

The possibility of flavor changes, carbonation, and other characteristics could also be due to the turn over rate at Surly during the last few years...

 

The first can run was just a few months ago. Todd is still head brewer and obviously was then. I think this is a reach.

 

I dont know, I think Todd tastes great as ever, but hey, that's just my opinion, man

 

There you go...(and I agree)

 

Todd doesn't brew, transfer or carbonate the beer.

 

He does apparently put together canning machines with out instructions though, so there is something!

 

Definitely this. Though that gets me wondering if this an oddity or typical?

 

The first cans I got were bar none the best IPA or IIPA I've ever had and I've had the majority of the heavy hitters. All the TH IPAs, Heady, Sip, Triple Sunshine, JuJu, Pliny, Focal, PF, etc. all were inferior. It was damn near perfect. I had probably 4 4pks of it the first go around and I got another 4 4pks from this canning run and I am very let down. The hops aren't as explosive and the grain bill is sweeter. It's still really, really good but I don't think it's the same recipe. I could be nuts though.

 

How can a beer be "really, really good" and "very disappointing?" Seriously, people that feel the need to compare every batch of beer to previous batches need to relax. If it is indeed "really, really good," can't you just enjoy it? This theme has become quite the broken record on this site and it's getting very old. Batch variation happens. Get over it.

 

Agree.

Plus, keeping the beer cold at all times is important. Not sure if you are drinking it in MN or Penn, but I think it is amazing here in town.
If it was shipped, did it get warm? Maybe a possibility, but I'm guessing you had it shipped last year too.

Just a thought.

 

Pretty simple when you're comparing a really, really good beer to a beer that was damn near perfect. It was pretty clear in my post. And sorry but batch variation in enormous breweries shouldn't be the norm. Simply accepting is the part of the problem.

 

Accepting a really, really good beer that MAYBE isn't quite as good as last time is a problem? Please tell me how complaining about this has changed anything for you? Have you spoken to Surly, or any other breweries, as I'm sure this isn't your first time, about this perceived issue?

 

I started here to see if there was any confirmation on a recipe change and to see if others were experiencing the same thing I did rather than immediately running to a brewery asking about recipes.

Drinking in PA, shipped in. A friend buys from an online seller in MN hence why I've gotten it in quantities.

 

I'm just glad I managed to snag a 5 gallon keg of this for my march madness party.

Yes, I'm gloating.

 

Regardless, the QC issues are getting old. Had 2 so far, both undercarbed. Not talking about head retention, but actual carbonation. Not like abrasive was, but not like it is in the taproom either.

 

Not sure if Surly is up to the "no batch variation" yet.

If you really want to see a group of people get mad at that, check out the Toppling Goliath appreciation thread!! Hilarious. Pseudo Sue batch variation from Iowa, then throw in the contract brewing from Florida... it never ends!!
I can agree to that, there is batch variation in Pseudo Sue.

A far as Todd, I didn't have that strong of a recollection of last years to compare to. I really liked it last year and do again this year. I'm sure there will be batch variation, and yes we have to accept it. I'm not sure who you were saying that part to. I also don't believe there was a recipe change. I didn't get a different taste in terms of recipe. Hops can always be different from year to year.

I hope you have better luck in other cans. It is tasting amazing here.

 

There are so very many reasons a beer can taste different from one batch to the next that automatically attributing it to any one specific thing, such as recipe, IS nuts. Even if the recipe had changed, let's say they added a secondary malt to the profile, you'd be just as, if not more, likely to incorrectly assess your perceived taste difference ("that must be why it's sweeter!") to that change than whatever is actually the culprit. Which could be everything from what generation the yeast was to how fermentation finished to this particular batch of hops that were used to the fact that you had a cold two weeks ago that you think has gone away but is still subtly affecting your palate to perception and expectation changes to relative freshness and storage conditions to your mood lately v. then etc. etc. etc.

Which isn't to say the two batches of beer don't taste different, they probably do, or that this batch of beer tastes worse, it probably does, but you probably can't say with any certainty WHY.

And just for my anecdotal two cents, I've only had batch two, but it boggled my mind that a beer that tastes like this could engender such passionate devotion and positive ratings. It's good, but it wouldn't even rank among most of the better batches of IPAs I was drinking lately in LA coming out of El Segundo, Noble, Highland Park, Beachwood, Modern Times, etc. or as good as the best batches I've had hoppy beers from 515 and TG (I'm new to living in the area, but have visited frequently in the past), but I don't know if that just means I've gotten spoiled, what I particularly like in IPAs is different than what this beer was offering (unlikely as Citra and Mosaic in particular scratch my hop itch) or what. I just mention this to say that I don't necessarily disagree with your assessment that this beer, while really good, isn't anything particularly special, to my taste, anyway.

 

I saw that Heritage had kegs which is awesome, but what's even better is the price relative to cans. Normally price per ounce for sixtels of craft beer is about the same as price per ounce on six packs. With Todd the sixtels were at a price equivalent to about $2.30 per pint.

 

Agreed