The American Distinction

Founders Porter is a porter man's Porter!

 

To me, Founders Porter is the standard by which all other porters (robust and/or American) are judged.

 

Smuttynose Porter is another example of a great one for the style. Also, Imperial Stout - Stone IRS and regular stout - Bell's kalamazoo stout.

 

If we are using the word "stellar" to describe the example and not necessarily the quality of the product, I would say a Light American Adjunct Lager. No blurred lines, you know what it is when you taste it and unless there's an objection, I believe that America is solely responsible for it.

Using the word "stellar" to describe overall quality? I'd say (and accepting all criticism for the perceived audacity in calling it American...) the Imperial Stout. Before Old Raspy, Narwhal, Stone RIS, etc., the "standard" for stouts in America was like, Guinness. The "Americanization" on this mothballed (largely, at the time) style launched the craze that led to West Coast style as well as Barrel Aging. Was there a more notable example before KBS (or BCBS, not sure which was the chicken or egg). To be brief, you can typically tell blindly when you drink an Imperial Stout.

Edit* - No idea whether or not I answered the question within the spirit that it was asked, just giving my riff on it.

 

BPs VAS

 

In Browns, Imperial Browns and Porters of all weight (not particularly Baltic though) I find a nutty and sometimes biscuity quality that I can't find in Imperial Stouts. On the other side of the coin, I can usually pick up some hint of anise in an Imperial Stout that I don't get in Browns or Porters. Being said, I'm not a huge Brown fan. If anything, I'd have a difficult time picking up a difference between an Imperial Cascadian and West Coast Imperial Stout, although most would argue that they are virtually the same.

 

I find it's tough to distinguish a porter from a stout when the porter delivers a good mouth feel. I'm no expert, and I don't want to claim to be one, but to my senses the difference between a porter and a stout is mouth feel. So for me, Bully Porter or Early Riser feel like porters (thin, watery feeling), while something like BP VAS feels like a stout (bold, and robust). Again, this is just me, as I have a tough time keeping those styles separate.

Also worth mentioning are Old Ales vs. Barleywines. They are almost identical, at least from what I've tried and heard.

To be honest, with how many micro styles there are, I cannot distinguish between some styles just based on look/taste/feel alone. I read up on whatever style I'm reviewing and then compare my experience with the beer with what I've read about the style. Some styles I have down, but that's just one or two.

 

For me, style is simply a suggestion of what the beer might be like. With all the crossover beer styles and blurred lines, the style points me in a general direction but the taste is what really matters, as in there are so many hoppy pale ales out there that many of them could easily be called IPAs.

 

Beer styles are always evolving with place and time. The Nugget Nectar example you give is one of many beer examples whose style is a snapshot in time (~20 years ago for Nugget Nectar) and might not be perfectly in-line with current style concepts, which is perfectly fine. The more you try to draw clear lines between styles, the more exceptions, disagreement, and confusion you create. I understand the desire to try to make sense out of the multitude of beers with neat clear-cut categories, but it's a fool's errand.

 

I have no idea what the OP is really asking, but I'll add this.

The "American Distinction" is not really a full picture. Take the "India porter" for example. Porter shipped from England to India was highly hopped compared to the "standard" stuff. When working with a historic porter recipe from Ron Pattinson, Dann Paquette commented that it had more hops "than some of the hoppiest modern IPAs." That beer (1855 EIP) is listed here as an English porter with the following note: "According to Dann Paquette (the Brewer), this beer is a Porter, not an American Black Ale. It was brewed in London in 1855, so it is an English Porter." If you search the beer database here for "East India Porter," Pretty Things EIP is the first hit, the second hit is from the Netherlands - Kees' East India-Style Porter. That beer is listed here as an "American Black Ale." I have no idea if this beer is based off a historical recipe. I know they've done this with their "Export Porter 1750." Even if it is based off an old recipe, I have no idea how many liberties were taken... I do see that the hops are American. Despite the fit of the classification (since it uses American hops), it's striking to see an "East India Porter" categorized as an "American Black Ale." Feels like we are trying to make things fit in a way that doesn't do anybody any favors in the long run, but I understand the needs and limitations in place. Beyond that, I don't subscribe to a real distinction between porters/stouts and strong ales/barley wines (to use the terms in the OP). To take the examples above a step further. Kees calls their Export Porter 1750 a Russian Imperial Stout.

( @patto1ro , do you have any info on those two Kees porters?)

 

Two words : Supersize Me!

 

Stylistic grey areas are never a good place to ask demanding questions.

 

At some point we need to use different terms.

Calling something a new style entirely isn't always useful.

Porters have existed for a long time, and have changed significantly in that time - especially during the 1700 and 1800s.

 

I don't. As me and Kristen are the only people I know of that have published EIP recipes, we've probably had an influence in there somewhere.

No-one can brew an authentic 1750 Porter, as diastatic brown malt isn't commercially available. And a Porter of that date would have been 100% brown malt.

 

Not so much in the 1700's. Way bigger changes in the 1800's.

 

Founders Porter vs Breakfast Stout...I can easily differentiate the two

Bell's Porter vs Kalamazoo Stout...I can easily differentiate the two

Deschutes Black Butte vs Obsidian...similar, but I can differentiate the two

...not sure if this is the answer you're looking for