Pre prohibition beer

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by ekim650, Mar 22, 2016.

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  1. ekim650

    ekim650 Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2016 Oregon

    Hello. First post. Nice to be here.

    So all last summer I was drinking Orlisen Clem's gold from washington state. It claimed to be a pre prohibition lager with no adjuncts such as corn, rice, and so on. It was just hops ,malt ,yeast and water Just like it was made in the 20's pre prohibition. Very good beer. Now I have a Kegerator but can't get my clems gold. So I went with a local brew, Fort George 1811 pre prohibition lager??? But the ingredients are barley ,corn ,yeast and hops. No malt...

    Both good beers but the claims of pre prohibition style are different. I thought corn was a filler? Why no malt? Can anyone straighten this out?
     
  2. scottakelly

    scottakelly Maven (1,487) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    Malt is barley that has been malted. I'm sure the beer that says it contains barley actually means barley malt because you can't brew without malted grain.

    Corn is an adjunct added to some beer. It was used well before prohibition and after. Back in the day American barley varieties had a high protein content, and it was necessary to add adjuncts to beers made with these varieties to lower the protein content.
     
  3. TongoRad

    TongoRad Grand Pooh-Bah (3,884) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Yeah, don't fear the corn. Adjuncts like it can play a legit role in the overall makeup of a beer in terms of clarity, mouthfeel, head retention, flavor, etc. They can be used poorly, but it's presence alone isn't really an indicator of anything.

    Just like today, some pre-pro beers were all malt and some weren't.
     
  4. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,157) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    In Memoriam Pooh-Bah Trader

    I enjoyed the Pre Pro beers I have tried, and as others say adding corn to the style was common before Prohibition.

    Another closely related beer style you might enjoy is called Classic American Pilsener (CAP). Not many/almost none brewed commercially in my neck of the woods, but you live in Beer Paradise so I bet you can find some great examples. The ones I have tried from homebrewing friends have been all malt (no corn, rice, etc.) and just so drinkable and delicious.
     
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  5. dcotom

    dcotom Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,637) Aug 4, 2014 Iowa
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Welcome! You'll learn a lot from these folks here.
     
  6. jesskidden

    jesskidden Grand Pooh-Bah (3,145) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Other posts above have explained that brewing with corn and rice as adjuncts was common for US beer in the pre-Prohibition era but it should be noted that while National Prohibition via the 18th Amendment went into effect in January, 1920, before that so-called "Wartime Prohibition" via the Lever Act meant disruption in normal beer brewing in the years 1917-1919. So, true "pre-Prohibition" beer would date from before the mid-1910s (at least in states that did not already enact statewide prohibition by then).

    [​IMG]
     
  7. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

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  8. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Straubs makes a Pre-Prohibition beer they brand as 1872 Lager. It is available on a rotating (seasonal) basis.

    Here is a thread I started on the beer: http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/straub-1872-lager.144714/

    As has already been mentioned Classic American Pilsners are not commonly produced by commercial breweries. My solution to this problem is I homebrew a CAP every year. I just recently brewed a CAP and it is drinking beautifully!!

    Cheers!
     
    #8 JackHorzempa, Mar 22, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2016
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  9. Ranbot

    Ranbot Pooh-Bah (2,463) Nov 27, 2006 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    All great information above. Keep in mind too that prior to the industrial revolution importing goods was very expensive, so people tended to use what was locally available to them, and on the American continent corn is an abundant crop. So it should not be a surprise that it was commonly used for brewing beer in pre-prohibition. You'll see this in many other distinctly American products too, like Bourbon, which by definition must have a grain bill of at least 51% corn.
     
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  10. akolb

    akolb Initiate (0) Aug 8, 2015 Colorado

    Upslope's Craft Layer tastes just like I imagine a good pre-prohibition layer to taste like. Very refreshing but still flavorfull.
     
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  11. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Below is from the Upslope website.

    At 15 IBUs this reads more like a contemporary American lager vs. a Pre-Prohibition Lager.

    Cheers!

    “Craft Lager

    Our Craft Lager is a premium American lager brewed entirely of malted barley. Snowmelt-infused and river-ready, this Colorado-style session beer stands side-by-side with our family of premium ales to bring you a clean, easy, light-bodied lager for the ages.

    Specs


    COLOR

    Light Straw

    AROMA

    Crisp Malt, Subtle Saaz Hops

    FOOD

    Chinese Food, Fish Tacos, Salad

    ABV

    4.8%

    IBU

    15

    AVAILABILITY

    All year long, baby.

    BODY

    Light

    Drink for a cause”
     
  12. IceAce

    IceAce Pooh-Bah (2,274) Jan 8, 2004 California
    Pooh-Bah


    True that you can't brew without unmalted grain.

    That said, it is possible to use some unmalted grain while brewing. If I recall correctly, Pierre Celis' original recipe for Hoegaarden (Witbier) included both malted and unmalted wheat in the grain bill.

    Just a little hair-splitting...
     
  13. scottakelly

    scottakelly Maven (1,487) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    I'm not so sure it's hair splitting. I said you can't brew without malted grain. You changed it to unmalted. The OP is obviously new to brewing so I was trying to keep my post as simple as possible. My post doesn't imply that unmalted grain cannot be used at all. Just that some malted grain has to be used. Technically, corn is an unmalted grain too.
     
  14. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I have never heard that before. Do you have a reference here?

    Everything I have read about brewing Witbiers (including my homebrewed batches) indicates that only unmalted wheat should be used to brew a Wit. For example:

    “Traditional recipes describe the grist as around 54% malted barley, 41% unmalted wheat, and 5% unmalted oats, though considerable variation was surely present (1).”

    “Using wheat malt will produce a rather different effect and a beer that resembles the familiar American wheat (3) more than a Witbier.”

    http://brewingtechniques.com/library/styles/2_4style.html

    To your broader point, yes unmalted grains can be used to brew beer. Even unmalted barley (flaked barley) can be used for brewing. The ‘trick’ is that unmalted grains need to be used along with malted grains (barley) since these unmalted grains lack diastatic power; they need the enzymes that the malted grains provide to convert their starches to sugars.

    Cheers!
     
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  15. billandsuz

    billandsuz Pooh-Bah (2,097) Sep 1, 2004 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    Wheat is a grain, and it can be used unmalted.

    Edit- I see your point though.
     
  16. IceAce

    IceAce Pooh-Bah (2,274) Jan 8, 2004 California
    Pooh-Bah

    I'm attempting to recall a conversation I had with Christine a few years ago regarding the original Hoegaarden recipe and I believe it was 90% unmalted and 10% malted wheat.

    However, I'm old and I've been wrong before...hell, I've seen myself do it.

    I'll attempt to remember to ask her when I see her next.

    Also, sorry for the hijack OP!
     
  17. mudbug

    mudbug Pooh-Bah (1,762) Mar 27, 2009 Oregon
    Pooh-Bah

  18. Ranbot

    Ranbot Pooh-Bah (2,463) Nov 27, 2006 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    If you ever have the [mis]fortune to be in your neighboring state of NJ, you could look around for Beach Haus. From their website:
    I think it's a very tasty pilsner. There's a moderate hop snap that keeps it interesting without ever fatiguing my palate...your results may vary, of course. To me it doesn't taste like a 45 IBU pilsner, but maybe the grain and maize sweetness off-sets the bitterness more than I expected.

    However, before @JackHorzempa points it out, Beach Haus does deviate slightly from the traditional CAP style because it uses American hops instead of German noble hop varieties, which would have been used pre-prohibition. However, the American hop varieties used in Beach Haus are varieties developed to have similar characters to German noble hops (not the citrusy varieties many associate with American hops today), so it's not too off from a CAP.
     
    #18 Ranbot, Mar 22, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2016
  19. cavedave

    cavedave Grand Pooh-Bah (4,157) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    In Memoriam Pooh-Bah Trader

    Am in NJ occasionally to visit family and I will definitely be on the lookout. Thanks!
     
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  20. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Yes, Randy and I have discussed this topic before. I had a chance to sample the Beach Haus beer at a beer festival and speak to the brewer for about 15 minutes. At that time Beach Haus beers were brewed in Rochester, NY at Genesee Brewing Company. At that time the brewer informed me that Beach Haus was constrained to solely use the ingredients that were commonly stocked at the contract brewery. He went on state that he looked forward to the day when the 'new' Beach Haus Brewery would be open in Belmar, NY so he could brew this beer using Hallertau Mittelfruh hops. It would appear that even though Beach Haus Brewery is now operational that the ingredients to brew this beer has not changed. This may be a business decision based upon a number of business considerations: save money since imported noble hops are costly, do not want to change an existing product, ...

    I thought that the Beach Haus beer I sampled was OK. If I ever see this beer on tap I will give it another try (one draft pint).

    Cheers!
     
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