Pre prohibition beer

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by ekim650, Mar 22, 2016.

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  1. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    There were (are) two different types of barley grown in North America: two-row barley and six-row barley. The six-row barley grew ‘better’ in many regions of North America (e.g., the mid-west). Some two-row barley was grown in the US in the pre-prohibition timeframe especially out west (e.g.. California).

    One of the distinguishing features of six-row vs. two-row barley malt is protein content. Six-row malt has a higher protein content and pre-prohibition brewers ‘learned’ that using some adjuncts like corn/rice for part of the grain bill (e.g., 20% of the grist) would dilute the protein content of the wort and the resulting beer would not suffer from chill haze and also had the benefit of improved beer stability.

    There was some two-row barley malt available in the US and since the beer that Anchor California Lager is based on (a little brewery named Boca) was a California beer it makes sense that it was brewed using California two-row barley malt and since it was two-row malt there was no need for adjuncts to dilute high protein content.

    I started a thread on Anchor California Lager beer: http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/anchor-california-lager-–-a-tasty-historic-american-lager.102801/

    I also wrote an article on how to brew a reconstruction of the original Michelob beer of 1896. That beer was also all malt and consequently two-row malt was used to brew that Pre-Prohibition Lager Beer as well. Read all about it in the September 2015 issue of BYO.

    Cheers!
     
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  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Anchor produced a cool video on Anchor California Lager beer:

     
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  3. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

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  4. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    That is a good reference, was just looking at it again.

    One gene controls the formation of 2 or 6 rows on the head. Other attributes have been closing in value over the years as 2 row is made with higher DP and ability to grow better in the Central US. 6-row is on the way out, Brewers want 2-row. Briess stopped processing 6-row a couple of years ago. I can still find it from Great Western Malting.
     
  5. IceAce

    IceAce Pooh-Bah (2,274) Jan 8, 2004 California
    Pooh-Bah


    Wow. Great Video.

    I'd like to add that Anchor Brewing's Bob Brewer and Mark Carpenter are timeless treasures as well.
     
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  6. marquis

    marquis Pooh-Bah (2,313) Nov 20, 2005 England
    Pooh-Bah

    At one time UK brewers imported Californian barley ( I read somewhere "need barley which has had some sun on it"!) but since the Clean Air Acts the UK has much more sunshine and exports barley to California.
    I understand that long daylight hours (ie high latitude) and moderate temperatures are helpful during the ripening time.
     
  7. Crusader

    Crusader Pooh-Bah (1,725) Feb 4, 2011 Sweden
    Pooh-Bah

    I bought a case of California Lager when it became available here and thought it was a superb beer. I thought I would provide a link to the product page for California lager from the Finnish alcohol monopoly website which provides some interesting info on the beers sold there. For California lager it lists 11.8% plato OG, 4.9% abv, 29.4 IBU (EBU).
     
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  8. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Jeff,

    I recently brewed my CAP beer using Rahr 6-row malt. I sincerely hope that Rahr continues to malt 6-row barley since IMO this malt makes an excellent CAP beer.

    I tried to find the productions amount of two-row barley malt vs. six-row barley malt but the best information I have found so far is for 2012. If you go to page 23 of the below linked presentation it seems to indicate that in 2102 about 40% of the barley malt was made from six-row malt and about 40% of the barley malt was made from two-row malt. There is also 20% made from other but I have no idea what other barley type this could mean.

    The presentation is an interesting read including some history at the beginning.

    http://ambainc.org/media/AMBA_PDFs/Conferences/2014_Talks/SEH_MBAA_MTC_8Aug2014.pdf

    Cheers!

    Edit: Maybe the "other" part of the graph on page 23 means other malt products (e.g., wheat malt)?
     
    #48 JackHorzempa, Mar 23, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016
  9. Ranbot

    Ranbot Pooh-Bah (2,463) Nov 27, 2006 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Did you expect this from your first post? In fairness, the majority of users on this site have little to no interest in Pre-Prohibition lagers, because of the similarity to most common mass-marketed light lagers, but there are subtle differences. You inadvertently tapped into a small group of users here who are very interested and knowledgeable in brewing methods and beer history, subjects that intersect with pre-prohibition beers. Stick around and you will learn a lot from these people. :slight_smile:

    Cheers!
     
  10. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    There was a presentation by a Briess guy at the 2015 NHC. He showed how the production of the 2 has swapped in volume, with 6 row going down fast in 2013-2014. New 6 row varieties have 160 Lintner DP, higher extract, so no need for 6 row. 6 row also has a bad reputation with craft brewers.
     
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  11. Squire

    Squire Grand Pooh-Bah (4,385) Jul 16, 2015 Mississippi
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I certainly wouldn't argue many members may have little interest in long ago style lagers, yet still, times and fashions change and as tastes mature we may see a resurgence of interest. Everything old is new again.
     
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  12. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Was that the David Richter presentation? I just went back and reviewed his charts and I couldn't find any statistics on barley types. I did attend his presentation and he made mention of this detail I personally missed it.
    I have heard/read this as well. Based upon my homebrewing experiences using six-row malt I personally do not get this. Do you?

    Cheers!
     
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  13. TongoRad

    TongoRad Grand Pooh-Bah (3,884) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I suppose that you could eventually substitute chit malt or even flaked barley if you can't get the six row any more.
     
  14. Ranbot

    Ranbot Pooh-Bah (2,463) Nov 27, 2006 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Sales of craft pilsners are up well over 100% from what they were 1-2 years ago. So there is definitely a resurgence in this category. This article was from a year ago, but I think the lager trend has continued steadily since... https://www.brewersassociation.org/insights/craft-lager/

    However, in my experience the surge in craft craft pilsners/lagers seems driven by the "india pale lager" (IPL) types, which use copious amounts of modern American citrusy hops. The craft community seems to be taking well to these modern takes on the pilsner, I assume because there's is nothing subtle about these citrus hop bombs, but interest in more classic pilsners seems lagging. Personally, I find most of these modern IPLs to be odd and unbalanced and would rather have a more traditional pilsner [or an American IPA if I want that citrusy hop flavor], but that's just me.
     
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  15. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Jeff, you are correct in that David discussed this topic at the end when answering a question. I had the leave right after the presentation so I missed the Q&A session.

    I just got done listening to the presentation and David mentioned that they did not receive any six-row malt in 2014 because the barley farmers that Briess had contracts with (the farmers under contract were in the Dakota's) experienced flooding and basically lost their crop. Briess had to purchase other barley and a business decision was made to 'switch' to two-row barley. David then went on to state that he is predicting that six-row barley would be more expensive per bushel in 2016 (this year's crop) so as far as he was concerned it just made economic sense to switch from six-row to two-row to save money. I suppose that maybe later this year we can see whether his prediction is correct?

    Cheers!
     
  16. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    I must be getting old! I will go back and look at that. I remember seeing some chart showing that 6 row production is down, will have to see if I can find it. There is this.
    http://blog.brewingwithbriess.com/briess-wy-mt-barley-crop-roundup-2-row-shines-6-row-fades-away/

    On 6 row not having a good reputation, that is from talking to local breweries and what the Briess guy said. Hey, it used to be said all the time by HB42 regarding Briess crystal as it was made from 6 row. Listen to the Beersmith Podcast with the OSU professor that does the Barley breeding program, he goes through the reasons, and since there is little interest, his work is on new 2-row varieties.

    I toured a small botique malt house near Grand Rapids last Saturday, Pilot Malt House. They said 6 row has been growing really well in MI, with a good yeild for the farmer, and they make some quality malt with it. They said too bad that there is little demand for it.
     
  17. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Nope, if I am unable to purchase six-row malt I will be compelled to stop brewing CAP beers!:slight_frown:

    Nah, just kidding.:wink:

    I fully expect that a quality CAP beer could be brewed using two-row malt. I have not tried this yet since when it comes to brewing historical beers I do my best to brew traditionally but at the end of the day I will brew using two-row malt (but only if/when I can't purchase six-row malt).

    Cheers!
     
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  18. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Yeah, I have heard some commercial craft brewers say the same thing but I have always produced good beers using six-row malt.

    Maybe @bergbrew can share with us his thoughts on this topic.

    Cheers!
     
  19. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    I make a couple using 6-row. Glad that a few others still offer it.
     
  20. bergbrew

    bergbrew Initiate (0) Jan 12, 2004 Minnesota

    The difference between US 2-row and 6-row has narrowed over the years (2-row proteins went up, although I've been seeing some lower levels in the past 6 months). We haven't used a lot of 6-row in the past 10 years, and as Dave Richter indicated, it can be more expensive than 2-row. Especially with some of the newer varieties of 2-row being grown closer/in the midwest, the cost differential is negligible.
     
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