New Brewery - Bad Beer

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I agree in principle, but it's never that simple. Even if you have more money than you think you need, there's a good chance you're still going to run out. Keep in mind that anyone who is opening a brewery almost certainly hasn't done it before. No one knows quite what to expect. Like any business, there are growing pains, no matter how well you plan. Plus, the lead time of beer production makes opening a brewery a logistical nightmare. It's not just the beer. Materials need to be ordered, workers need to be hired and trained, beer needs to be brewed... all of this needs to be done with a specific target date in mind. And what about those people who were counting on a job, but now are out of work for a while because the place can't open? Waiting to open doesn't cost just the amount of the beer...

Also, have you ever tried getting money from a bank or investor? I can even imagine going into a bank and saying, "we can probably do it for $X, but we'd really like $X+Y."

Look, if the beer is objectively bad, the place shouldn't open. (We certainly wouldn't have opened if we couldn't stand behind the beer.) And I think I agree that it should be "commercial grade" beer (although I'm not certain exactly what that means). All I'm saying is none of this is quite as simple as it can seem at first glance.

 

That is exactly what brewery owners are doing when they open too early, and expect costumers to pay for their flawed beer. I understand where you are coming from on the brewing end of things, and that some of these flaws are almost inevitable on a new system. The mistake I see, and that I hold brewery owners accountable for, is not planning well enough financially to be able to dump the first few batches of flawed beer. If someone can't afford to open a brewery properly they have no business opening a brewery.

 

I get that opening a brewery is hard and many don't know what to expect. I would argue that those people shouldn't open a brewery. There have been too many places with bad business plans and not enough capital opening, causing them to have poor timelines and bad beer. This causes us all to suffer. Make a good business plan, bring someone on with brewery or business experience and someone who has some experience with brewing and you'll have much greater changes for success. I wish more people would refuse to support places that open without a solid plan in place so we actually did have breweries that didn't make it. It would serve as warning to new entrants that they better not enter unless/until they have their shit together.

This is the exact reason that new breweries need to brew test batches and likely dump them - to figure out their yeast, get yeast "introduced into a new system" and learn their new brewing system. Figure out the issues on your own dime and dump the "bad" beer. Open when you are making acceptable beer. It doesn't need to be perfect, we understand that breweries will continue to get better over years, but don't serve us your test batches. Write "brewing test batches" into your business plan and plan the capital needed for this or don't open.

 

So what I see here are excuses why we should patronize someplace that makes less than great beer, on the hope that they will someday soon start making great beer.

I get it @12tb You own a brewery, I'm betting from your responses your brewery went through some of the challenges that you listed above. I respect the hell out of you for keeping with it (like seriously I do) but your difficulties in getting a business started and dialing in your equipment is literally the exact same issue all new manufacturing and food process have. A new restaurant? You cook a shit ton of food that doesn't get served to make sure how the new oven and stove top work. A new assembly line? You machine a ton of things to make sure it is all set up right. Beer should be no different.

If you don't have the capital to make sure you are serving beer that is up to your standards (and that is the issue, if you are making beer I dislike intentionally because that's the flavor you are going for then good on you), you should not open. Full stop. If you can't put together the capital to make sure you can dump the first 20 batches if need be to get the system on point, then don't open.

Opening a business is hard work, and a shit-ton of risk, that's why you get the big owner bucks later when it takes off. Don't act put upon when people expect you at the start to be doing at least a very good job.

 

I don't understand how a brewmaster would be willing to serve "bad" beer. To get that job you would think they must know if a beer is good or bad. I understand the commercial pressure but why risk return customers which keep most breweries in business?

I'm a homebrewer and I know when I have a bad batch, uncommon but happens. I don't subject one of my bad beers to others.

 

It is on a case by case basis for me based on how far it is. I went to Anoka's 10K. Terrible beer. I live south of the river so will I venture out back out there? Most likely not. Will I go back to Dave's BrewFarm? Hell yeah. I live somewhat close to Nutmeg Brewpub & I've been to it twice and was not impressed but I might go back in a couple of weeks to see if it improves. If I venture out to MPLS I will go to a new one but if it is not up to my satisfaction I will go to one that will.

 

I guessing the first time you had sex, you sucked, but with some practice, you got better. Just like making beer...you figure out the "equipment"

 

I am willing to give breweries a 2nd chance. That 2nd chance might be a few months down the line, or a couple years.

 

In fact, I don't own a brewery, and I've never owned a brewery. I worked as an assistant brewer at a brewery for a few years to get my way through graduate school and was there when we opened (I'm not working there or in the beer industry at all anymore). We never had beer quality problems, even at the start. Our head brewer was a perfectionist in many ways. Yes, our beer improved over time, but even from the start, I would have put it up against many other established breweries. We didn't have any capital problems because we were fortunate enough to be backed by some people with substantial means.

But when I worked there, I got to know a ton of brewers, both established brewers and ones new to the industry. And I saw all of these things happen to very good people and very good brewers. Even those that thought they had a very well thought out plan or enough capital (it's not just a capital issue, either) weren't immune to facing struggles in the beginning. You can find some of those brewers' beers winning major awards today.

Look, I think maybe you're taking my comments a little too extreme. I'm not saying brewers should sell bad beer. Though I'd guess it's happened, I don't know of any brewer that has intentionally sold a bad beer just for the cash. These things aren't black & white. Beer is subjective. There are shades of grey, so to speak. (For example, my head brewer never sold a single beer that was "up to [his] standards"--he saw a flaw in everything he did because his standards were impossible.) And I'm not saying beer needs to be subsidized or mistakes need to be paid for. The market will decide whether to keep a brewer in business. If we know one thing about the free market, it's that it will not subsidize anything. I understand your comments about capital and business plans and all that. And yea, that's great in an ideal world. But in the real world, things don't always go as planned.

My comments are only that, in my opinion, consumers shouldn't necessarily write off (or judge at all) a brewery based on what it does in the first few months. There is so much that can happen that is very hard to understand if you haven't experienced it or seen it. That's it. That's all I'm saying. That's my response to the question. And I provided my reasons for why, which hopefully give a slightly different perspective. You're free to disagree, and you do, and you've provided your reasons why, which all are valid. By all means, you're also free not to patronize any brewery. That's OK, too. As a brewer, I would hate to hear that, especially if it was due to alleged poor QC.

But to be clear, I'm not telling anyone here that they should support a brewery they don't like. I don't mean to tell anyone here what or how to think. It's just beer, and it's just a few bucks. Support your local brewer like he's a friend. Or don't. Do what you want. There's plenty of beer out there for everyone.

As a sidenote, to read at least one person in this thread wishing that other people would stop patronizing breweries that he doesn't (subjectively) like for the express purpose that the brewery would then go out of business is very disheartening. That's absolutely insane to me, and I would never wish that upon anybody, especially not someone in the craft beer world. But, alas, I think that's probably an outlier opinion.

 

Interesting analogy, but I think it falls flat for a few reasons.

Most importantly, brewers can "practice" in a variety of ways before jumping head first into being the head brewer somewhere. Be it homebrewing, internships, brewery coursework, or a paid position at a brewery, there are many opportunities to get experience before venturing out on your own.

With that said, none of the things I mention are necessary or sufficient for brewing great beer right out of the gate...I think we've had good examples of both sides of that in recent years. And at the end of the day, a brewery is a business first and foremost- if mediocre or bad beer sells and meets the goals of the established business plan, there can be little or no incentive to change. Keep in mind that those of us that frequent these nerdy sites represent a very small minority of beer drinkers.

 

The problem with the written word is sarcasm is hard to detect. I went to LTD the week they opened and it was not good, went back and it was better. I am there at least twice a month...same of Sisyphus.

On a positive note, I will visit you in Duluth..or wherever you open in the north part of the state.

 

Come on now. Beer websites are SUPER SERIOUS BUSINESS. Take your sarcasm and GTFO.

 

I appreciate your perspective and the respectful discourse.

I do think you've mischaracterized my position.

I'm not saying don't go to a brewery that I don't like. I'm suggesting that it might not be bad for the industry if a new entrant who doesn't have their shit together and puts out sub par quality beer fails. As others have said,starting a business is a risk and it doesn't work for everyone. Businesses fail every day. I don't think I'm being mean spirited in hoping that people will support quality and vote with their dollars. At some point, consumer spending on beer will peak and there will be a shakeout.

 

I've only been to a cople of breweries shortly after they opened.

Oliphant. I was there 6 weeks after they opened, and, damn, they were knocking it out of the park. Even though I'm in the St. Cloud area, that's the reason it's the brewery I've been to the most.

Bad Habit. Their beers were pretty good, with one exception: Red. That was horrible. It might have been infected. It was sour and bitter. Really bad tasting. I went there again a few weeks back, and I tried a sip of the Red to see if it was any better, and yes it sure was. It was so good I took a growler home to fully enjoy it, and did so in one night.

 

Brewing is a volatile process and I feel that most consumers do not understand this or are not willing to accept this. If any of you have brewed a batch of beer you understand that there are numerous variables that go into it. Imagine being in the position of building a brewery with limited amount of money and trying to brew a batch of beer that you had previously brewed at a smaller scale. You have invested much time, effort and capital into this beer. Just because it isn't exactly what you expected do you just throw it out? Probably not. IF there are infection issues or it just does not taste like what you were going for? well you probably should dump it.

I would love to quote the post by Sisyphus a few months ago that pretty much echoed what I'm trying to say. Sure there will be some breweries that open with perfect beers, but more likely there will be experimentation and we as BAs will have to accept that.

I feel that the original question shouldn't be applied just to new breweries. There are plenty of established breweries that put out sub-par products that we as consumers don't just automatically abandon. Anyone here that will just not buy any BCBS or variants next year just because of what happened this past year? Central Waters a couple years ago with the infection issues? Surly has put out a few beers in the past couple months that I hated but for some reason I haven't stopped going to the brewery. I dont understand why I would hold a brand new brewery to the same standards.

 

From a consumers perspective, life is to short to drink shitty beer. There are so many options out there that are making great beer that there is no reason to accept bad beer.