"Maybe it takes Americans to make a good German beer.."

I like to think that is what I did in all my posts in this thread

 

Sure - though the German version is often more the caricature of what the American beer scene is like than what it is actually like. How many brewers in Germany are putting up a beer list like the one I posted? I'd venture to say only a handful in the entire country - this place is a brewer nobody has ever heard of in a town that nobody has ever heard of. So I actually disagree here - I don't think the diversity exists in the German craft beer scene.

I actually in a sense get your frustration with these sorts of places. There's a craft beer bar now in Bremen, where I (mainly) live. I was very excited - finally something aside from Becks or Haake Beck's, or the occasional Aventinus or Diebels to mix it up at one bar that is too loud to hear anyone else talk but you go to sometimes anyway because you can't stand drinking shitty pils every day. But really this bar serves the same mass market craft stuff every other craft place sells. There's some Sierra Nevada, some Ratsherrn, some Crew Republic. Maybe a couple others thrown in there as well. You find this same line up in nearly any "craft" place in the country. It's frankly no more interesting as a rule than the local monoculture it replaced - it's more down to what you decide you want to drink. There are exceptions - mainly in Berlin - but in most German cities I can see why craft beer bars would give a poor impression.

When I'm back in the US (as I am now), I travel a lot. On this trip I'll be in Ohio, Michigan, Portland, Seattle, Washington DC, Philadelphia, Asheville, Atlanta, Houston, and Dallas. Every one of these places offers its own distinct lineup of excellent local area brews. And unlike the way I described craft bars in Germany, inevitably there's always going to be a focus on the local beers, as well as a smattering of national ones. An interesting feature of American beer distribution is that you need to get a license to distribute in each state, so even the out of town offerings can vary greatly from place to place.

Every one of those cities offers its own distinct feel as well. The only real difference is that there's not much in the way of styles that you can *only* get in one area. At the point at which a style becomes successful it's replicated elsewhere. But far from resulting in a boring monoculture, it means there are just more great (and some not so great, of course) versions to try.

On the other end, I think I at least understand where you are coming from - there is something special about a region being so dedicated to a single type of beer, and visiting that place. That said - that would be (is) awful to live in from my perspective, even as someone who travels extensively. Also it just has a feeling of artificialness to me, and a sense of putting a beer culture in a museum, as if real people didn't live in these places and have interest in other things than was traditionally made there.

 

Now I see your problem. You live in Bremen. Funny thing about caricature. That's what I feel about the American beer scene compared to Germany....I have a local craft beer place in town that gets something good every once in awhile. For the most part they have 150 different beers and not one is worth a crap. Most are undrinkable. So much for the joys of the large lineup.

 

150 beers and not one is worth a crap? I need to see this to believe it, where is it? I wanna go! That's an accomplishment.

 

I hear you, although I think part of this is that I've become spoiled. But I can walk into local beer bars and really only find a couple I want to drink. The vast majority of the tap list is filled with over hopped IPA's, beers with crap in them, 10%+ stouts (and IPA's) and sours at very high price. While i would disagree that none of them are worth a crap, they're not what I want to drink on a regular basis.

The bar I was in last week had 1516 on draft. I drank four of those!

 

Jerry,

Isn't it great to have a choice. Drink a quality hoppy beer if you are in that mood or instead drink a quality beer like 1516?

Last Saturday I had the chance to drink three different types of quality Bock beers (Rye Bock, Maibock and Helles Bock) and a Sly Fox/Stone Pils. Those beers 'hit the spot' that particular evening. If I stayed home I may well have drank some 1516 beers since I purchased a case of that beer.

It's all good!

Cheers!

 

You say this a lot, but you also seem to imply that it's not "all good" if a specific, intact beer culture as a whole prizes things other than variety. Why is it not "all good" to have a beer culture (like Belgium) 200-300 miles away that prizes variety and experimentation while protecting your own culture (like Germany, or, more specifically, Bamberg, Duesseldorf, Cologne, Munich...) that prizes (hyper)-local and fresh and "pure"? Is is okay for cities, but not for states or regions...or countries? Even in the U.S. we have breweries that privilege one "culture" or set of practices over another....

 

I think it is good that countries produce 'traditional' beers and make those beers available to local beer consumers.

I think it is good that countries produce 'non-traditional' beers and make those beers available to local beer consumers.

Provide the local beer consumers the beers they like to drink. Sometimes I enjoy drinking beers like Heady Topper, Pliny the Elder, DirtWolf,... and sometimes I enjoy drinking Sly Fox Maibock, Weinhenstephan 1516, Straub Helles, Mahrs U,... and sometimes I enjoy drinking Iron Hill Tripel (Gold Medal winner at the recent WBC), Westmalle Tripel, Rochefort 10,... and sometimes I enjoy drinking...

It's all good!

Cheers to good beer!!

Edit: and then there is homebrewed beer as well!!

 

Non-answer...of course.

 

Or is it too many answers!?!

 

This is actually an interesting example to bring up - I'd argue Belgium does a pretty good job balancing celebrating their traditionally strong brewing culture and embracing beer not traditionally found there.

 

There's nothing like actually sitting down and experiencing (embracing) these cultures first-hand when you understand and appreciate the differences (@Lurchus highlights this in many of his posts in this thread) -- unlike the Globe reporter who seemed to only be interested in the salary for his article and not the enlightenment of visiting another part of the world.

I can still remember wandering Munich on my own when I first visited the city; wide-eyed and full of the exciting feeling of being on the other side of the world for the first time. Let alone enjoying the cuisine -- including beer. Each trip back seemed to heighten that excitement with trips to other areas of the country, and I never grew bored with what I anticipated around the next corner. I carried the same excitement to England, Ireland, France, Austria, and Switzerland -- always happy to find new experiences, never disappointed to not find a Walgreen's on every corner.

BTW -- there's a quote from one comment at the Globe article page that really says it all:

 

You clearly have been in Bremen too long i fear
See what the brewers in "regional traditional beer centres" are doing... You could argue for instance that Franconia is not only an epicentre of traditional beer culture, but it also kind of were the brewing of american-inspired craft stuff in germany started and still is very strong.
Schlenkerla is my prime example of a traditional brewery which besides making very good "classic" brews has always been making NEW brews like Eiche or Rauchweizen, based on variations of the traditional approach. And aigan: Thinking that the centres where certain styles are dominant have no variations on that styles and the styles themselves are very stable is a false prejudice. Think of Alt and Kölsch. Kölsch itself is kind of a young style, in its modern recognazible form and as an icon of the city only there since the 1950ies. There have been variations here and there, like modern unfiltered "Wieß" which followed the general trend of unfiltered beers in the 80ies and 90ies, or more recently stuff with new-world hops like Gaffels Sonnen- or Winterhopfen. Same goes for Alt with Uerige unfiltriert and the likes of Uerige Jroen or Schumacher 1838. But also thinking that the "standard beers" of those regions haven't changed at all in the past, haven't changed, haven't adapted to modern tastes is simply wrong.. So there is that. And you see, people are getting interested. But there is still a bias to "their" styles,which aigan is nothing wrong. I mean think aigan of food. Ialian food also went under a lot of changes in the past, is still recognizable, but you wouldn't blame the italians for living in a museum for still wanting marinara, would you?

And I still feel personally, beer whise, franconia is still ,at least among the places I know, the best place to live in...because they mostly follow traditional practices while remaining a strong sense of diverstiy. I mean you can go through the Kellerwald to let's say 4 different Biergärten, always say "Ein Bier, bitte" and will get 4 different experiences, each very good and properly served. If this is a museum, I hope it's a museum that stays there for a long, long time

 

IMO, adjuncts (and excessive hops) aren't necessarily an issue. I think many places use them as a cheap gimmick. Plus, the whole "craft beer" thing is really still in its infancy. 10 years ago everyone thought Heineken and Corona were what you were supposed to drink if you didn't want swill. Now it's some kind of raspberry-coconut porter.
That doesn't inherently mean all adjunct-based "craft" beers are more than saying imported lagers are all crap.
I think it's just a matter of not everyone knowing the difference and hopping on a bandwagon that at least kind of makes sense. The real catch is that we have a lot of people brewing beer that have no place doing it. Often times they and the general public have no idea, too. We're only just now starting to see that in CO and we have something like 100 breweries within an hour of Denver. I feel for the places where 1/2 of their options feature an entire line-up of beers that should be reserved for "Firkin Friday."

In the case of Germany, I support the traditional styles and drinking culture because I think they've had a long, long time to get it right. That said, I think there is probably room for a zany beer or two. To me it's more of a gesture of "things are good, but a tiny bit of variety won't hurt." My support only wanes if it somehow affects the quality of what they already do well. So far, there's no sign of that. If it were to head down that road, I'm sure my opinion would change.

 

2006? I think you need to push back further than that.

Sure, "craft" brewing can still be considered young, but by 2006 I'd already become far tired of American Pale Ale.

I think 2006 was my first trip to the Great Taste of the Midwest* too -- no Heineken or Corona there.

*2016 is its 30th Anniversary.

 

I think it was around in 2006, but it wasn't incredibly popular. I guess maybe the major players like Sierra, Sam, Spoetzl, Brooklyn, etc. Even New Belgium and Goose Island were regional players at that stage.
In greater Denver, we only had (maybe) 7-8 breweries rather than the 100+ we have now. I could buy Cantillon or Bourbon County Stout at any one of 20 stores with no thought of either ever selling out.
I think 2010 is when things really changed. That's when the whole "nanobrewery" thing really kicked in. When places started regularly brewing beers that I'd call 100% gimmick beers. When being a head brewer no longer meant you paid your dues learning what's what at Rock Bottom, Ram, or even in your own kitchen.
I think that for better or worse, craft beer being in the cultural mainstream probably dates back 6-7 years.

 

I also went to the Micro-Brewers and Home-Brewers Conference in Portland in the mid-90s -- lot of micros from around the country plying their wares. Was getting Beers Across America monthly microbrew subscription at the time. The Micro Boom® is older than you think.

Now, I'm not saying it was as big as it is now, but it was certainly a big deal. Maybe Colorado was really that far behind? Don't know, but there were at least 4 brew-pubs in Chicago proper, a few in the 'burbs, and 3 bottling micros around in the mid-90s.

 

The GABF started in '82 in Colorado.

<------ I joined BA in 2003 -- I was heavily active at another beer forum for at least 3 years* before that.

Was off on that. Joined the other group earlier the same year, but I probably wasn't as active here at BA for a few years after that.

 

That's certainly part of it - and I must clarify that often I'm responding to people acting as if *Germany* as a whole has its act together regarding beer. As I've said (and you referenced as well) Bavaria has its act together far more than much of the rest of the country. It both has a stronger and more varied brewing tradition than the rest of the country and has embraced "craft" in a way that doesn't just feel like pumping out really crappy imitations of foreign beer styles the way some brewers are. I would argue there's still a lot of room even in Bavaria for more high quality "craft" brewers - but yeah, it's far and above what much of the rest of the country has.

But I'm not just talking about this from afar up in the north - I've lived in Regensburg, and I'm quite frequently in Bavaria to climb or for other reasons. So I can appreciate the beer culture there. I just think you can add diversity to it without taking away from what exists.

At any rate, I've said my piece. I should also clarify that I think the guy in the article sounds like a schmuck, in case anybody thinks I'm trying to defend him here.

 

i also find it interesting that US folks are starting to find German "craft" offerings monolithic. not eady keeping up with constantly changing notions of what is genuine and what is "boring."