The 750 Saison

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by zid, Jun 26, 2016.

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  1. Squire

    Squire Grand Pooh-Bah (4,385) Jul 16, 2015 Mississippi
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  2. utopiajane

    utopiajane Grand Pooh-Bah (3,982) Jun 11, 2013 New York
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    The saison is like a beer pleasantry. Have you ever been to the confectioners shop? You can find there a small perfect box with hard lemon candies in it. They are perfectly yellow and have a light dusting of sugar . They look perfect but not delicate.

    Meriwether is a collaboration between Perennial Artisan Ales and The Commons Brewery.

    The pour is alive with bubbles. Not just one stream! They keep coming and the head is very creamy and stands quite a long time. Lemon yellow and hazy. Nose is bright with lemon, grasses and spice . A healthy sugar on this nose and a scrumptious malt underneath that little bit of extra sweetness. Some barnyard to give tartness to the nose. I thought I smelled wheat at first. Golden malt. Drinks with lots of wonderful hop herbal and lemon. Spice and a touch of earthy sweet funk. Herbal pepper and bubbly carbonation finish the beer with a firm hops bitter to linger. It does not finish all the way dry. Just a touch of sweetness on this one to finish malty. A subtle crackery finish with lots of spice.

    The saison often appears as a contradiction. Hearty yet delicate, sweet but dry, I think that is why so may have girls names. This one is so lemony it's bon vivant! It's also a little bold with funk. TGIF everyone!


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    #182 utopiajane, Jul 15, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2016
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  3. Urk1127

    Urk1127 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,790) Jul 2, 2014 New Jersey
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    Two Roads holiday ale was a Biere de Noel (garde) one of my favorites ever let alone in style. Id recommend it this fall.
     
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  4. cjgiant

    cjgiant Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,584) Jul 13, 2013 District of Columbia
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    I have found this to be true of the beers I have gotten that are brewery-labeled Grisettes (namely at Right Proper in DC). I have generally found them very enjoyably light, while still representing the characteristics I enjoy in Saisons (which is not my favorite of styles the way most American small breweries are making it).

    I sorta felt you might have been hinting at [what I eventually found out is] this:

    BA's search techniques failed me! I search for Blackberry in "this thread only" and got no hits. The fact that another person mentioned it in a post, also, makes me wonder what is going on. Oh well.

    I think I agree with you on hitting on the style guidelines. And I can say that I likely am finicky about my Saisons (for instance, I am not really a fan of Saison DuPont :grimacing:) - and this one fits right into my wheelhouse.
     
  5. utopiajane

    utopiajane Grand Pooh-Bah (3,982) Jun 11, 2013 New York
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    Hi you guys! As the summer sizzles the saison sets the stage for sumptuous afternoon summer suppers. Other terms for the style are farmhouse ale and table beer. Both sound rustic and as far as flavors go the saison is a romantic and rustic style. It can also be very hoppy and finish with a strong hop character and bitterness. I have one that is 4.5% adn 30 ibu.

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    I won't try to post the whole thing again because I made amazingly few corrections this week. New Beer Sunday says good morning. :grinning:
     
  6. cjgiant

    cjgiant Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,584) Jul 13, 2013 District of Columbia
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    Would there be a general or accepted difference between "table beer" and some of the other terms out there (farmhouse), like the afore-touched-upon Grisette? I just assumed the two highlighted were fairly similar, but I cannot say why I assumed that beyond a potential parallel in ABV. Are there histories in the names? Different location of origin? Or just interchangeable terms?
     
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  7. Dweedlebug

    Dweedlebug Initiate (0) Feb 28, 2012 Pennsylvania


    The bottle with the profile portrait is the older bottle. The new label is the one you show in the store with the picture of the brewery. I'd say the older bottle is at least 2 years old.
     
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  8. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    Thanks. That's what I was guessing.
     
  9. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    "Table beer," as a named thing, existed historically in England and Scotland. Along with small beer, family ale, table ale, and dinner ale. It could be pale ale or porter. It was a tax class... it's impossible to divorce taxes from the history of beer styles. Belgium and France had biere faible (weak beer), petite biere (small beer), and biere table (table beer). These were all low alcohol beers.

    Originally, a "farmhouse ale" was something brewed on a farm for consumption on the farm. Eventually, they evolved into something that traveled. Grisette was originally something else, perhaps more industrial, but I'll try to find out what I can and will follow up when I post about a "Grisette."

    Don't think of all of these things as different "beer styles" the way we divide things today. More like a categories (and different ways of grouping) that can overlap. I wish I had more knowledge on the topic but I don't.
     
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  10. cjgiant

    cjgiant Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,584) Jul 13, 2013 District of Columbia
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    In today's Americanization of many styles, I rarely consider anything style-wise to be static any more. I mean, there are the judging guidelines, which is about the closest - but even then all you can say is it meets those guidelines. Learning about the history is a different thing, and is interesting in its own rights - which is more of what I was looking for in this case. Your info in the post I took this excerpt from (probably just above this one) is definitely on that side of things and appreciated.
     
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  11. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    I've done some hunting and I've added another case to the thread. :slight_smile:

    You've convinced me. See above.
     
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  12. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    OK, back to the beers (de gardes).

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    Brasserie Duyck / Jenlain - Printemps, Biere de Mars

    Brasserie Duyck is probably the most important brewer (historically speaking) when it comes to modern Biere de Garde. How could I leave them out?

    The French brewery dates back to 1922. In 1945, they bottled their "Biere de Garde" (in corked Champagne bottles) - making it more widely available... and in doing so helped to define the style as we consider it today. The popularity of their beer grew over the years, and in the '80s, their beer was key in the revival of French specialty (or "craft" :wink:) brewing.

    The lines between biere de garde and saison are blurred. One reason for this is that brewers from the region did not consider these as "styles" the same way certain beer drinkers consider them now. Some brewers would package a beer with both "saison" and "biere de garde" written on the label.

    "Biere de garde" translates to beer for keeping. Like saisons, they were beers that were brewed according to the season. Today, they might be brewed with lagering techniques, or bottom fermenting yeast. Even if there is some fuzziness between biere de garde and saison, if you take the two beers that are considered the current archetypes - Dupont and Jenlain, you'll find that they aren't very similar (and I imagine that this comparison bears some responsibility for the style descriptions that we use today). A biere de garde is typically maltier and less likely to have a hoppy bite (but malty and hoppy are not mutually exclusive despite how some people use the terms).

    The Jenlain beer in this post is a "Biere de Mars," which translates to March beer (Oktoberfest parallels comin' at ya). A Biere de Mars was often considered the 'best of the best' by the brewers. They were typically brewed in winter and aged after a cool fermentation. Sometimes these beers are called "Biere de Printemps" which means spring beer (hence the name of this beer).

    The cork of this beer came off with an exhausted little pfffff. Not a good sign.
    The beer was essentially headless but it still had a tiny bit of fizzy carbonation. It was very thin and reminded me of apple juice. It showed much oxidation. The beer got a little more tolerable as it warmed, exhibiting a very slight amount of caramel and some graininess. So much for the so called "beer for keeping." :wink:
     
  13. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    Chris, the other aspect that I personally view as a difference is that the Biere de Garde style typically has a more subdued level of esters/phenols as a result of being brewed with a more neutral yeast strain. I have only had a handful of beers labeled as being Biere de Garde and every one of those beers had more subdued yeast derived flavors as compared to beers labeled as Saisons. I would be interested to hear if you have similar experiences as part of your summer of Farmhouse Ales drinking.

    Cheers!
     
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  14. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    The theme of old and damaged biere de gardes continues.

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    Thiriez Biere de Noel

    This beer is listed here as a "Belgian dark ale" - without "strong" in the name, it's a group that gets little love here.
    In actuality, a Biere de Noel is a French Christmas beer. Typically darker and fuller than an average biere de garde, I could nonetheless see a beer like this grouped in with the biere de garde family rather than the literal but perhaps otherwise meaningless "Belgian dark ale" group.

    This beer resembled the Pipaix that I opened earlier... but not in a good way. The beer gushed (but not nearly as much as Pipaix) and it had a metallic sour quality. Whereas the Pipaix still had some tasty personality, this beer just felt like an old wreck. Not worth consuming. I wonder how old this bottle was. I really do feel for fans of biere de garde. I could be wrong, but I get the sense that these beers were once as loved as saisons, if not more so. Times have changed. Finding one is hard enough, and this experience has shown just how low one's expectations should be set regarding the freshness and condition of what you find. A pity.
     
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  15. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    I have also found esters to be lower in biere de garde, but it's a tough comparison for me because I've had many, many more saisons than biere de garde (I prefer saisons... and they are of course more plentiful over here). I bring this up because it's easier to find commonality in a smaller group than a larger one.
     
  16. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    I hear what you are saying. Do you have many more Biere de Garde beers in your inventory?

    Cheers!
     
  17. TheDoctor

    TheDoctor Grand Pooh-Bah (3,484) Mar 7, 2013 Canada (QC)
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    That's a great video. Thanks for the post and the thread!!!
     
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  18. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    And for proof that it's also hard finding a fresh domestic biere de garde:

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    Schlafly Biere de Garde

    This beer is two years old. It was the freshest I could find. I chose this over the three year old bottles around here.

    The beer suffered from some oxidation. It was a little fruity, nicely malty, and had a touch of wood. I thought it was too old to really enjoy. Cheers to Schlafly for actually dating their product. I knew what I was getting into when I bought it. I sorta knew the French beers were gonna be rough too, but you still kind of cross your fingers and delude yourself into thinking there's a chance.
     
  19. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    I'm banging them all out tonight. :slight_smile: Gotta catch up with my posts so I can get to the beer I drank today for NBS. (I try to keep the order intact.) I'm afraid that the biere de garde subgroup will leave much to be desired - and my slim descriptions will reflect this too.
     
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  20. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    With the next beer, I'm transitioning from the biere de garde group to the Saint Somewhere group.

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    Saint Somewhere Traditionnel

    The brewer is calling this a biere de garde. I was looking forward to a fresh biere de garde (this beer was recently released). Unfortunately, the beer in my glass really didn't resemble the archetype of a modern biere de garde. If someone gave me this beer blind, I'd say it was a saison.

    It was very delicate. A little funky and with a slight tartness. It was fruity in the apple and peach realm. It had a dry finish. There was something that didn't quite work for me, perhaps something missing that I couldn't quite put my finger on.

    Traditionnel is French for "traditional." Saint Somewhere strikes me as the kind of brewery that looks to France and Belgium with reverence. They claim to be going for an "old world take" on a biere de garde here. I guess they were going for pre-Jenlain, but I wonder what they were aiming for exactly and why. At 5%, it's lower than a modern biere de garde, but probably higher than an "old world" one. The common thinking is that such beers were probably sour (and also vinous) to some extent.
     
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