Oldest beer recipe still produced?

Seems like they are one of the oldest around right now. One of the oldest styles may be Belgian, or even brews that ancient Egyptians and Mexicans made either from yeast collected from the night air or from the organisms in saliva of chewed corn (just as Sam from Dogfish Head has tried to replicate).

Interesting question. Maybe some more studious BAs have a better response.

 

A lot of old brands going back 200 years (or more) are still being produced in Germany, Great Britain, the Czech Republic, and elsewhere. Even the USA still has a few that date back almost that far.
However, I think that it's very safe to say that none of them are still being produced from their original recipes, since techniques, equipment, and ingredients (not to mention public tastes) have all evolved over time. There are some old classics that aren't even the same now as they were a mere 20 or 30 years ago (200+ year old brands like Bass Pale Ale and Guinness Stout are prime examples of that).
Nothing is really sacred in the beer business.
If there is in fact any old classic brew being commercially produced today using the same recipe as even just 50 or 100 years ago, I'd be shocked and would like to know about it. I'd be very surprised if the claim were true (and would probably still be skeptical).

 

Beers which appear to have been around for a very long time are like my grandfather's broom, having had three new handles and four new heads.
It is almost impossible to recreate beers from the past even if the recipe is known; the barley and hops are no longer available, neither is the yeast strain.
In my drinking lifetime I have seen many beers change, perhaps to match altered public taste and also because of tax changes.

 

Probably not that long. I doubt Weihenstephaner Hefeweizen is more than 150 years old.

 

Guinness Extra Stout today is nothing like it was in 1914 and has changed signifcantly several times inbetween.

 

However old Weihenstephaner Hefe Weissbier is, I hope they don't mess with perfection!

 

Excellent analogy!

 

The brewery in question may be that old, and they have not changed the name, but as others have said. Human meddling with nature, and with technology and damn near everything else for that matter have rendered most of those beers with the pedigree of time added to that name unrecognizable to their former selves.
These recipes being created from what is written down are subject to the silence the brewsheets compose in their austerity of language.
Same thing with 'ancient' recipes that are being recovered via 'fancy science shit' as with Dog Fish Head, and Off Colour working with museums
Again. It's a you know what happened. But not the why, or how.

 

There's clearly some details that can't be re-created, but you might be interested in a book called "Uncorking the Past" by a Molecular Archaeologist by the name of Patrick McGovern. I heard him give a talk a couple of years back about his work, which includes the collaboration with Dogfish Head to reconstruct some of those ancient ales.

It was surprising to me just how much information could be recovered about the beverage both by using that "fancy science shit" (in his case molecular analysis of residues) as well as being able to put the beverage in it's cultural/historical/technological past. In one case, Chateau Jiahu, they even found liquid inside a 2000 year old sealed container.

 

If anyone is interested, here is a really good write-up about him that discusses his work, beer, science and all that jazz.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-beer-archaeologist-17016372/

 

The oldest brewery claim always has some caveats. If you go to their site, the say the Monastary burned down 4 times, was closed due to plague, and wars, and a great earthquake.

The brewery is modern stainless from images on the web, stainless is relatively new. Malt varieties change with a 20 year commercial span. Some hop varieties are still in use, but Hallertau Mittelfrüh is susceptible to the mildews, and other hops have gained favor.

The Gandpa's broom analogy is a good one.

 

This actually brings up an interesting predicament, how do brewers deal with the fact that yeast mutate over time?

Ignoring the fact that Weihenstephaner hefe is probably not being brewed with the original recipe, and that most beer before the turn of the 16th century was dark beer, the yeast from the brewery has been in use for 1,000 years. I wonder how the mutation and selection of yeast strains played into the production of amyl esters to produce the strong banana and clove flavors we all love today.

But yea in relation to the thread, pale malts were very rare back in the day, so pale colored beers were not very common. Even Weihenstephaner hefe has probably changed over the past millenium.

 

The strong clove and banana that some love today. Had to say it. The clove is a phenol, and German wheat beer yeasts have the POF gene, "Phenolic Off Flavor". Some Belgian yeasts have that gene also.

Pasteuer changed how yeast was viewed. Then it was found that stains could be isolated, and the best performers selected through trials and lab work. Breweries have a lab, or work with a commercial lab, to maintain unique strains. The yeast can be banked at near cryogenic temps, and a single cell is all that is needed to propagate a pitchable volume of yeast. That is how they deal with it.

 

Very interesting. From what I understand, phenol contributes peppery, spice like flavors, correct?

Also very interesting, honestly I should have known since I use the same procedure to maintain E. coli cultures. I'm sure its a little trickier with yeast though. Super cool.

 

Some of the spivey ones I like, peppery notes in a saison. Strong clove, no. There are also plastic, smokey, and other off flavors that come from yeast phenolics.

You might be interested in the book Yeast by Chris White.

 

Carlsberg recently cultured up yeast from an 1880's bottle. It was virtually genetically identical to their currrent yeast.

There was plenty of pale beer in Germany in the past nrewed using air-dried malt. That's what Weissbier means - a pale-coloured beer. Nothing to do with wheat. Many old Weisbier recipes are 100% barley malt.

 

It has been mentioned before but it is impossible to brew a beer today like it was produced 50-100 years ago since the barley varieties used then are no longer grown.

Hops varieties have more history. For example East Kent Goldings and Fuggles were grown over a hundred years ago in England and those varieties are still grown today.

How a given yeast strain may have mutated over the past hundred years or so is anybody’s guess. I don’t know exactly when a yeast strain was cryogenically frozen but I suspect it was sometime in the 1900’s.

Cheers!

P.S. You can read about a revival of an old barley variety here: https://www.jic.ac.uk/news/2013/04/beer-brewed-from-victorian-barley-variety/

 

It looks as if quite a few old barley varieties are going to come back. Carlsberg brewed a historical beer using an old barley variety they had floor malted.

Though I'm starting to think EKG dont really exist. All sorts of related whitebine varieties are marketed as EKG. It's quite possible that the exact hop Mr. Golding bred isn't around any more.

 

Ron, I can’t comment to the heritage of hops being sold by all hop farmers but it is possible to obtain hop rhizomes for the ‘original’ Golding hops (Old Golding of 1790) by going to Wye Hops (located on China Farm). They have other heritage hops there as well, for example 1838 East Kent Golding hops).

In essence Wye Hops is a hop bank (akin to yeast banks).

http://appellationbeer.com/blog/breeding-hops-suddenly-hip/

Cheers!

Jack