The 750 Saison

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by zid, Jun 26, 2016.

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  1. utopiajane

    utopiajane Grand Pooh-Bah (3,982) Jun 11, 2013 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    What I like about the saison style is that it is rustic and there are elements that are at once both subtle and not so subtle. It can have range and be tart. It's associated with the farm so an appreciation for beauty and the senses. It's also a bit cheeky as a style with a prominent nose and a drink that is sating but leaves you with some kind of desire. My beer today is from Against the Grain Coq de la Marche.

    Cheers! I have to drink it first . :stuck_out_tongue:

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    No Swinging In Your Walking
     
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  2. utopiajane

    utopiajane Grand Pooh-Bah (3,982) Jun 11, 2013 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    I always rouse to the excitement of New Beer Sunday. Either that or it was the damn rooster. My beer today is Against the Grain's Coq de la Marche. It's comes in a pint can and that's fine by me; if a brewer thinks that his beer is so delicious that only a little bit might insult me.

    Happy New American Late Hop Addition Saison Sunday

    This is a saison that uses spelt malt and a late hop addition. Cheers to New Beer Sunday!

    The pour is sultry yellow with a big head of white foam that dwindles. The color has a little golden edge to it. A stream of bubbles, soft haze. Fruity with melon husks sweet grasses and light lemon. It's fragrant with a soft flower petal and the nutty perfume from the spelt malt. It's like the musk on this citrusy fruity beer. Sharp little bit of pepper. Drinks softly and very elegant. The malt sinks into a bit of crackery softness with a touch more flavor than you were expecting. the citrus becomes prominent in the drink but it's heady with dry lemon. Sweet grasses and alight touch of sugar finish this one dry and with a subtle cheek from bitterness. It's put together very well and has the perfect bubble. You don't notice any bite and the malt is very lush to the palate. I think there is a little dry funk on this beer too but I can't prove it.

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    This is a lovely, malty saison with a bit of nutty flavor from the spelt malt and a vivacious late hop addition gives it presence on the nose. What I like about this style of beer is that it has a hearty character. The fruit is not easy to name and has a quality that sometimes I think you can only define by a color. Cool green like melon, mixed with a peppery herbal , lemon, a touch of tartness - its' all compliments and that's balanced. The bittering hop is strong and could take you to the aspirin like bitterness in a DIPA like heady topper, but in this one it's softer than that. It does have a sharpness. This is not a big IPA with lots of slick feeling to the body so a crisp sharp bitterness accents dryness. It lingers but not longer than the faintly nutty malt and with the light lemon in the aftertaste. Your palate is not all the way reset because of the spelt and the sugar. You want to pair this beer with aged or soft cheeses and a variety of artisan breads and sandwich boards, smoked turkey with melted cheddar and apples.
     
  3. cjgiant

    cjgiant Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,584) Jul 13, 2013 District of Columbia
    Society Pooh-Bah

    This thread seems to be slowing down. Haven't see that @zid completed his journey, and I actually bought a Saison DuPont to re-check my thoughts on this classic. I hate to admit I'm wrong, but I'm thinking there's a chance I might I this case. I could actually used it for next week's Throwback Thursday, but I don't like to cross-post, and feel this thread would be better.

    Anyhow...
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    A new, strange saison from a brewery in SEVA, O'Connor. Their beers that make it up here are generally ok. This is initially fitting into that realm, but let's see.

    Jeffrey's Bay Watermelon Saison
    Light yellow, towards a white ale, with just a thin rim of head. Spicy nose with a watered down watermelon, and a baseball card bubblegum note.

    Taste is all over the place. Not sure I've ever had such a crazy mess (and though I mean that in a fairly negative way, not as strongly as it sounds). It misses on being complex because you can't grab onto a flavor before it changes. It misses on muddled, because their are distinct notes that shift constantly.

    Warmth smooths it out a tad, but spice is generally involved I every part as it transitions from banana to watermelon to grassy to herbal to clean to peppery to grassy to watermelon. Whew!

    The good: overall the watermelon comes through enough without being overbearing.
    The bad: all I already mentioned.
     
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  4. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    Crack that whip. OK, OK. :slight_smile:

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    Here's the usual group tasting. I left out the lambic-ish ones. In order of my preference:

    5 - Glazen Toren Lentebier
    4 - Dupont / Lost Abbey - Deux Amis
    3 - Dupont Avril
    2 - De Ranke XXX
    1 - Blaugies La Vermontoise

    The big surprise was Deux Amis not placing well in this context. It came across as sweeter than in the past. It also had a little sourness. I never would have properly identified this beer. My theory about liking XXX better without it being next to XX proved accurate. XXX felt more IPA-ish in this group than it has in the past. This proved to be a weirder group than I was predicting before opening the bottles.
     
  5. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I've been doing some shopping, and I picked up a new group. These feel like a collection of stragglers. We'll see how they do.

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  6. utopiajane

    utopiajane Grand Pooh-Bah (3,982) Jun 11, 2013 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    I am not done yet. I've got this song for my next saison. Let's see if the shop has one like this. Flirt
     
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  7. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

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    Jolly Pumpkin E.S. Bam

    I also opened a Bam Biere to have alongside the big guy. I guessed the E.S. Bam was gonna be quite old. E.S. is a play on "extra special."

    According to the brewer, E.S. Bam is Bam Biere with more hops and malt. It's significantly darker than Bam Biere. Is this a product of "more malt" or oxidation (or both)? E.S. is indeed maltier. It has a yogurt-like tartness and acidity. I really don't get much in the way of hops here... kind of surprising considering the hops on the label and "hoppy" in the name. Is the age of the beer causing a shift in the balance between tartness and hoppiness? I don't know. It's not that much different than Bam Biere, but this bottle of Bam is definitely more enjoyable than this bottle of E.S. The lightness of Bam just dances on the tongue and is a total asset.
     
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  8. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

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    Le Trou Du Diable La Saison Du Tracteur

    Considering that this brewery is in Quebec, there is actually a good reason for a French name on the bottle... it's not like an American brewer marketing "authenticity." This beer has won lots of accolades in the World Beer Awards. If I removed all beers in the Shelton Brothers portfolio from this thread, it would be a lot thinner (and so would I).

    I don't know if this handsome but undated bottle purchased in a new store is a victim of age at the distributor or if the beer is meant to be like this. I'm going with the old bottle theory. The beer tastes oxidized and sweet. There's some old-world bitterness in there, but I don't know what hops were used. Unenjoyable.
     
  9. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

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    Mystic Mary of the Gael

    This is Mystic's spring saison. I wish I knew which modern saison producer started the idea of a saison for each season. Was it Fantome? It's great to get a beer dated this year.

    This hazy orange beer is incredibly dry - strikingly so. Tastes of pilsner malt with a very slight tartness. There's a minerality. The hops are very interesting and characterful. I don't know what hops are in here, but they are bright and slightly earthy. There's something unorthodox about them. This is a fantastic saison.
     
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  10. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

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    Blaugies Darbyste

    I really liked an older label for this beer... the biological fig one:

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    Perhaps this fig label didn't seduce the customer like a coffee label would. The various Blaugies labels seem so disconnected when they change. There's another bizarre label for this beer that wouldn't be appropriate to post here. This beer used to be listed here as a "Belgian Pale Ale." Now it's a "saison." Given the sour aspect of this beer, saison is a better fit between the two. The idea of a reviewer rating a sour beer against the archetype of "Belgian pale" illustrates a problem with reviewing according to style. Oddly, when I first had this beer years ago, I don't recall it being sour at all. It was definitely sour when I've had it on tap. The Shelton Brothers website describes it as a "saison" that's a variation on a "Belgian Wit." You can see how muddy things can get.

    This beer is fermented with fig juice. To quote the Shelton site: "A traditional style named for John Darby, preacher of temperance whose parishioners were oddly moved by a ‘soft drink’ they insisted was just fig juice." Make of that what you will.

    This beer is without the typical Blaugies unrelenting head. It's soft but there is still a slight prickliness. There's a nice sourness to this beer. It's dry, but there is just the right amount of sweetness to balance with the sour to make it considerably drinkable. Hop presence is minimal. This is a beer that grows on you.

    Fig trees are very interesting in their role in the ecosystem. Are there remnants of fig wasps in this beer?
     
    #330 zid, Aug 12, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2016
  11. utopiajane

    utopiajane Grand Pooh-Bah (3,982) Jun 11, 2013 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    I was looking for a flirtatious saison today and I did find one. This is from Finback Brewing in Queens New York. I like the sleek can design and the name very much. The hops are wakatau and hallertau blanc. Wakatau is from new zealand and is a descendant of Hallertau mittlefruh. They give a moderate bitter, restrained floral and fresh lime zest. I am using plenty of lime lately and this is a terrific find! The hallertau blanc are the German daughter of cascade hops. They are tropical, fruity, give lots of flavor but are said specifically to be " not dank."


    Pours a soft yellow and hazy. A good crisp bubble made a nice foam stand that fell quickly. Tropical and cool. The hallertau blanc is cool green and sweet. There is a tang to it like from a pineapple but it is not dank or zesty and is very light. The dry hopping is so fragrant. Crackery malt and lots of earth from the hops. it's got lime from the wakatau in the flavor but not so much on the nose. It's unique and has a light pepper.

    The taste is very light and fruity but it defies a long explanation. The combination of hops is unique and vibrant and surprisingly complex. The lime keeps coming forward delightfully and dry. The finish is crisp with light bubbles, and the malt surprises you with a firmness that delights the palate with texture. The bittering hop is fantastic. That's the lime. It has a graceful softness in the malt .The bjcp says the saison should finish with a prickly acidity and this is a sterling example. It's gentle in the end no matter how saucy the flavors were. True to it's description there is no dankness and that makes it seem to go up in lightness. It lingers with a light clear lemon and a tropical herbal tang, lasting bitterness. Beautiful! And a flirt in every way.

    Cheers you all and here's to all the threads! I got me some lagers for lager the extreme beer and wbaydn and new beer sunday. The potatoes were Frenched and then fried.

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  12. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

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    Blackberry Farm New World Cuvee Dry Hop Saison

    Wonderful. Underripe peach. Carbonation is a touch too prickly. Nice malt. Almost meringue (but not quite) head. Very drinkable.
     
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  13. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

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    Fantome Dark White

    What in the world does "dark white" mean (especially when a brewery releases similar beers under a "dark" or "light" designation)? Regardless, it's nice to have a Fantome without any obvious issues. Apparently a spiced saison. Lately, Fantome seems to be releasing beers with trendy ingredients (lots of hops, coffee), or beers that don't reveal their raison d'etre. This is in the latter category. I wish I could just buy their plain "saison," but that's not what's hot I guess. I had that beer once and it made me a fan.

    This beer is relatively dark. There's a nice sourness that recalls underripe berries. People tend to think of Fantome as a brewer with big hits and big misses. I'd say this one doesn't fall into that dichotomy.
     
  14. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

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    Sierra Nevada Ovila Saison

    Sierra Nevada Ovila Abbey Ales is a series of beers made in partnership with the Trappist Abbey of New Clairvaux. Located in northern California, the Abbey of New Clairvaux was founded in 1955. The beers are made in the mold of traditional abbey/Trappist beers (sometimes with a twist). It's weird that they went with a saison since it isn't an abbey-style ale. Apparently, they justify it's inclusion as a tribute to the work these monks perform in their fields. Seems like a silly stretch to me. When possible, some ingredients that go into these Ovila beers are grown and harvested by the monks.

    The Ovila chapter house was a medieval structure in Spain. In 1931, William Randolph Hearst purchased the chapter house, had it dismantled, and shipped it to California… but nothing was ever done with the stones. The Trappist Abbey of New Clairvaux gained possession of them in 1994 and wanted to rebuild the chapter house. A portion of the earnings from the Sierra Nevada beer series goes to the monks and their efforts to build the structure (a very expensive undertaking).

    I was able to find the plain Ovila saison and the "mixed pack" with three different 750 bottles - including the saison with sage. In very un-Sierra Nevada fashion, neither of these products appeared to be dated. I figured the plain saison was old… I didn't know about the mixed pack. Since I didn't want the quad and brown ale… and I didn't want sage in the saison… I went with the plain saison. That was a mistake. The beer seems to have become acidic from age. Carbonation was low and the beer wasn't hazy. I get the impression that this was a nice beer at one point, but it's not one now. Now that I've dug a little, I see that this beer is "retired" and that the box set with the sage saison is current. Oh well. The story behind the beers is great. Anyone interested can watch these videos for a fuller picture:


     
  15. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

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    Jester King Noble King

    This is another case of a sour saison marketing itself as hoppy. This beer is very tart. It's light and lemony. The noble hops are buried under the sourness. If I only drank sour beer, this beer might strike me as hoppy. Since sour beer is in the minority of my drinking habits, any hoppiness here is lost on me. It's as if different breweries were using a different scale of hoppiness (which is fine). Nonetheless, the gulf between the name/artwork and the beer in the glass seems so vast... and I'm not a "hop-head."
     
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  16. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

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    Here's the latest blind round.

    8 - Le Trou Du Diable - Saison Du Tracteur
    7 - Sierra Nevada Ovila Saison
    6 - Jolly Pumpkin E.S. Bam
    5 - Blaugies Darbyste
    4 - Jester King Noble King
    3 - Fantome Dark White
    2 - Mystic Mary of the Gael
    1 - Blackberry Farm New World Cuvee Dry Hop

    I feel like Blackberry Farm got more proper recognition in this blind round. This round featured many sour saisons - half in total. In the split between sour, bitter, and spiced saisons - I'm a fan of bitter saisons. In this case, the sour saisons sat right in the middle... the oxidized saisons were in the back... and the hoppy saisons were up front (with the bitterest taking the top spot). That's a reflection of my preferences. Looking beyond this for a moment, I feel like this Fantome beer was the real standout in this group. I didn't expect to like it as much as I did. A great beer.
     
    #336 zid, Aug 15, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2016
  17. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    I think this brings a close to the normal portion of this thread for me. Now, I plan on entering into my "revisits." I've selected half a dozen Belgian beers, and half a dozen US beers to revisit. I will not be posting about each individual beer, but will be posting about the group (with the usual blind tasting segment). I will also post about all of the draught and 11-16oz saisons I've had this summer... in a very brief fashion (and the occasional oddball).

    First up are the Belgians. I decided to include the Saint Somewhere Fraternite collaboration beer in this group. I will make a post about Dupont's Avec Les Bons Voeux, since we haven't seen this one yet. I decided to throw this fan-favorite in at the end. That's a lot of green glass.

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  18. drtth

    drtth Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania
    In Memoriam

    Dupont's Avec Les Bons Voeux is one of my top preferred choices for a Saison (when ever I can find it).
     
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  19. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Chris (@zid), if BA decides to create their version of the Emmy Awards for best BA threads I am going to ‘vote’ for this thread.

    Thanks for all of your contributions so far and look forward to reading some more in the future.

    Cheers!

    Jack
     
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  20. shnsajax

    shnsajax Initiate (0) Jul 2, 2013 Idaho

    Was hoping to see some reviews of the release of The Lamb this weekend.
     
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