Whirlpool and Dry hop Quantities in NE DIPA

Cross posted on homebrewtalk, so sorry if you've already seen this but I value the info I learn from this sight just as much, if not more:

So I've brewed a number of New England/Northeast pale ales and my DIPA specifically I've brewed 6 times prior. Each time I feel like I'm getting closer and closer to achieving exactly what I'm looking for. I feel like I finally have the malt bill and types of hops locked in, I'm just toying with the hop schedule.

There's no way to get around the fact that these beers take a boat load of hops, but I'm trying to figure out where the hops are best used to I can cut down where they aren't as necessary. I'm torn between these two schedules. The first uses a bit more hops in the boil, and a close to equal hop stand and dry hop. Its pretty close to what I've done so far just with a smaller bittering charge:

.5 Apollo at 60
1 oz Citra, and 1 oz Mosaic at 10
2oz Citra, 2 oz Mosaic, 1 oz Amarillo Hop stand at 180 degrees for 45 min
2 oz each Citra, Mosaic, and Amarillo split into two dry hops


My second schedule looks like this, just using Apollo in the boil, cutting the whirlpool hops down just slightly, and adding an even bigger dry hop.

.5 Apollo at 60
1.5 oz Apollo at 10
2oz Citra, 2 oz Mosaic at 180 degrees for 45 min
3 oz Citra, 3 oz Mosaic, and 2oz Amarillo split into two dry hops

So here's the real question. In New England style pales, are the dry hops or the hop stand hops where you get most of the good stuff? I've seen recipes where the hop stand hops are greater in quantity than the dry hop, I've seen recipes where there's 10 oz of dry hops, and I've seen them around equal. The Trillium clones I've seen, with info contributed by their brewer, has a smaller than I expected whirlpool addition and almost all flavoring hops used in massive dry hop additions.

So which schedule looks better? Whats the bigger deal, the dry hop or the whirlpool, or are they equally important in this style of beer?

 

While I'm curious about the general question of where the hops do the most good, I'm also brewing what I hope to be the final version of my house DIPA recipe this weekend, so if grain bill and gravity matters at all to my question of hop schedule, here's that info:

OG is usually right around 1.075. I usually shoot for an FG around 1.013 or 14. I target around 8% ABV.

I don't have my exact recipe in front of me, but its something like:

11 lb 8oz two row
2 lb flaked wheat
1 lb white wheat
8 oz carapils
6 oz honey malt
12 oz corn sugar

Mash at 150

 

In an attempt to minimize oxygen pickup I dry hop my first charge while fermentation is active. I transfer from the carboy to keg using Co2 onto my second round of dry hops, and then purge the keg again. Since kegging I haven't had any detectable oxidation issues.

I had read that exbeeriment and while interesting, it compares the 20 minute addition vs a flameout hopstand. I usually chill to about 180 before adding my hopstand hops so its only getting limited isomerization. I'm leaning towards the larger dose of hops in the dry hop at 8 oz rather than the whirlpool, but 4 oz in the whirlpool isn't exactly skimping anyway.

 

Awesome, thanks everyone for the info!

 

Another question I'm interested in everyone's opinion on before I brew this beer on Monday would be the use of Flaked Wheat Vs Flaked Oats. I've used both in these types of beers and haven't noticed much difference, but I've never done a side by side comparison. I know Trillium tends to use flaked wheat more, and I've seen flaked oats in a bunch of others. Is there a benefit one way or another?

I know this is off topic in my own thread, but I hate to start a new one just for this.

 

For sure. I've brewed this recipe a number of times with a number of tweaks, each time improving a bit. I feel like this should be the final version and should be a great creamy, juicy DIPA.

Batch Size (fermenter): 6.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.075 SG
Estimated Color: 5.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 36.8 IBUs Calculated but in reality will be higher
Est Mash Efficiency: 73.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Amt Name Type # %/IBU
10 lbs 4.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 62.4 %
2 lbs 8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 2 15.2 %
1 lbs 12.0 oz White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 3 10.6 %
8.0 oz Carapils (Briess) (1.5 SRM) Grain 4 3.0 %
6.0 oz Honey Malt (Gambrinus) (25.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.3 %
5.0 oz Acid Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 6 1.9 %
12.0 oz Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 7 4.6 %

0.25 oz Apollo [17.00 %] – Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 12.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] – Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 12.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] – Boil 10.0 m Hop 10 12.5 IBUs
2.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] – Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 m Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] – Steep/Whirl Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] – Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 Hop 13 0.0 IBUs

2 oz Citra [12.00 %] – Dry Hop 1
2 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] – Dry Hop 1
1 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] – Dry Hop 1

1 oz Citra [12.00 %] – Dry Hop 2
1 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] – Dry Hop 2
1 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] – Dry Hop 2

 

I do a dry hop in the primary, and then a second in the keg. I bag the keg hops and add some steel washers to weigh it down. I then tie the bag to the keg handle with some unwaxed dental floss and seal and purge the keg. I transfer from the primary with a closed Co2 system, and then purge the keg again. I remove the bag after 5 days and purge again, but you could probably leave it in too.

 

Dry hopping is essential to this style, but a double dry hop isn't. I like to do it because dry hopping while the yeast is still active will do different things than dry hopping in the keg. The yeast will interact with the hop oils to create new flavors and aromas. Keg hops are a bit more raw in my experience. I do it twice to get the best of both worlds.