Stone Brewing Announces Restructuring & Layoffs

Yes, you responded to an MA guy just as he responded to an MI guy, but this is an open forum in the Beer Talk section of the site so your remarks are not private and can be responded to by others.

It seems to me that this sub-thread is addressing issues related to nationally distributed beers vs locally produced beers and the possibility of confusing freshness with quality. The fact that there are some major metropolitan areas where local means access to fresh great beers, and ignoring the presence of many below that level beers, does not change the fact that large numbers of people do not have such options and are living with very limited choices and often if they have local, those locals are not up to the standards of the nationally distributed breweries.

But now that you've qualified your remarks to make it clear that they are intended to apply only to the best breweries in some major population centers (which do have a majority of the population), while ignoring the large number of average or below breweries in those major population centers, my suggestion was that you expand your thinking to include dealing with the full range of breweries and the situation of those folks not living in major population centers.

 

Yeah. I feel bad for those losing their jobs, but a 5% workforce reduction isn't necessarily a disaster for a company of Stone's size either. During the 2008-09 recession the company I work for (almost 500 employees at the time) went through 3 rounds of layoffs, each one an approximately 5-10% staff reduction. The first round of layoffs surprised everyone, but when the dust settled my co-workers all agreed those laid-off generally were not great employees or their skills didn't fit the company well (no fault of theirs). Now the second and third rounds of layoffs... those hurt.

At least there are lots of new breweries out there who would probably appreciate picking up someone with experience in the beer industry.

 

moab brewing is as good as it has to be, and the drafts are 4%. I usually find one I like. You can also find decent beers at the state store.

There area is also more than mountain biking. Off road, hiking, climbing, river running, and so on. Done all of those, except mountain biking. A cold beer is a good way to end the day.

 

West like pittsfield. Bldg 8 is ok, a well made beer, but i'm not into the flavor much. BBC makes great dark beers, people's pint is nowhere near stone level. The others are starting to get too far out.

 

That's way west. I feel for you. Any VT or NY options that work?

 

Tree House not good enough?
Sloop and Suarez are even closer.

 

Yikes. I get the open forum thing. Maybe folks who have below average breweries near by should move? You're in PA? Good options there. Yes? I still don't get the locals are a worse brew than the nationals. How would they stay in business? There are 4,000 breweries in the US. I'm probably biased living in the best beer center of the US. ( Or so) Most of New England has access to great beer.

 

I think the OP was looking for local. Pittsfield to Monson has to be at least 90 minutes one way.

 

He did post in his original post that Stone was better than 100% of breweries within a 90 minute radius (which should then include Tree House, Suarez, and Sloop).

 

Moving just to find better beer isn't an option for many. :-)

Yes, in some areas of PA there are lots of excellent local options but there are many other areas where there are not. Even folks in Pittsburgh can be heard complaining about the poor quality of some the local beers and breweries.

Here in SE PA we are indeed blessed with some breweries that brew at the level of the nationals. But we also have a number of small breweries that brew below that level and they do stay in business. The why is something that has been the topic of a lot of speculation but it is happening (So far. We'll see what the next 3-5 years bring).

Personally I think some of it is wanting to spend money with small local business and that some of it is that people who are used to drinking AALs, haven't spent as much time learning beer as do those of us on this site and prefer what they get in the local brewpub to the alternative of an AAL. (Many who drink flavorful beers actually most often buy an AAL and use the flavorful beers as a special treat.)

BTW, there are those who would argue that the "best beer center" in the US is the one they are living in. :-) Nobody has yet developed a metric for deciding what is best. Certainly Portland and Bend OR could make a strong case about being the best, as could Philly and a few other places.

 

I don't think most people can just up and move to get access to better local beer.

Average or worse local breweries stay in business because they are local. People support them because they enjoy the novelty of having something made down the street, they like the local "Cheers" feel that they get by becoming regulars, and they feel good supporting people they may know or at least the local economy. If they are aware of its importance, freshness is likely another reason locals thrive even if they are not good. I live in Chicago, and while there are many good or even great breweries, there are a ton of really bad, borderline undrinkable beers made here. Many've been in business for over two years, and, as an industry worker, I know firsthand that they sell.

I do think you are incredibly biased. You do not seem to understand that New England compared to, say, Montana, or even beer-obsessed Wisconsin, is WORLDS of difference when it comes to the quality of local options.

 

The moving part was more in jest. Yes, probably biased. You only know what you know. Who knew, bad beers everywhere? Maybe this needs to be explored in another thread.

 

You're putting words in my mouth and making nonsensical points nobody is arguing. I've said now a couple times that there are good "local" beers and bad local beers. You choose a nationally highly ranked NE IPA that's around 6 hours away from you as your example of "local beer"? Perhaps you don't understand what the word local means? The Ferrari and Kia example was supposed to show that picking something that's nationally best in class and comparing it to a normal, everyday, nationally available liquid doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Skipping your second paragraph because....congratulations? Having traversed the country a few times, always drinking local beer when I can to try new things, I can say that if there's no bad beer in your area (or rgordon's area) then you're the exception, not the rule. I've never been in a city for a few days where I got to try a significant portion of local breweries and not found at least one that had beer that's below average at best. I guess I should plan a vacation to upstate New York or something.

But moving on, I've still never contradicted myself, there is a lot of crappy local beer taking up shelf space and taps but your original statement is "lots of people are getting beer from the source" because you aren't using facts to back up your opinion (a common trait among locovores), I am. My job in beer analysis would be a hell of a lot easier if I could just walk into a room and say whatever's on my mind based on my own biases and not use data to back that up. I stated a provable fact, that beer bought from "the source" isn't a massive amount of liquid when compared to the total volume of the beer industry, I can't make it any simpler for you man.

 

Maybe, maybe not.
No question that Stone is a major player in the world of so called "craft" beer, and they do make some fairly decent products.
But is must be remembered that "craft" brewers are primarily in competition with each other, not the big, bad bogeyman that the "craft" segment of the industry has painted the BMCs as.
But like it or not, It is true however that some of the big bad BMCs are beginning to produce products that are every bit as good as the 'craft' brewers, and in some cases, maybe even doing it better.
Add to that the continuing expansion of the 'craft' segment itself with record numbers of new startups (some of which are quite good, and many of which range from quite bad to heinously bad).
Stone will survive, I'm certain. And they will probably do so without the need to sell out entirely (or even in part) with the bigger brewers. But they ARE running a business and the bottom line IS the bottom line...and a well run business sometimes needs to assess the marketplace and take action like this in order to prevent the bottom line from bottoming them out.

 

No, you are not. You are just arrogant enough to think that your opinions are facts while everyone else's are just opinion. You are biased on what you think is "crappy local beer".

Pretty much by definition, half of the beer out there is "below average". Your point from the beginning is that there is too much crappy local beer on shelves while the peons out there are too stupid to understand the wonders of nationally distributed beers. My response to that is that there is just as much crappy beers from national distributors as there is from the local guys (law of averages and all). I find the nationally distributed brewers to be behind the times and have devolved to producing "crappy national beer" that appeals to the lowest common denominator to increase sales.

 

I put in the 90 min critera to knock out tree house, because they are awesome and I wish they were closer. That being said, whats wrong with going to the store thats 10 min and picking up some Stone since they make way above average beer. Its what I do 75% of the time. maybe i'll drop my radius to 60 minutes but even then, I'm not looking to make a 2 hour round trip every week.

 

Say what you want about Stone's beer quality, freshness, competition....

......but this sounds more like defective leadership. Anyone that was in charge of strategy or finances should have protected the nest first, and study their desired markets more thoroughly. Stone management went high risk with that aggressive expansion plan to reap the rewards, and lost the battle. And the spoils (the talented laid-off employees) will be employed elsewhere. Sad.

 

Maybe, just maybe, if they had pointlessly and insensitively destroyed more German beers, for basically no reason, they'd be doing better in Germany.

 

Your simple statement, "taking up shelf space" is very revealing. Who says? The big chains (which I'll bet you know best) most often utilize true movement and sales to warrant what is positioned where on the shelves, what to close out or to double face. If "crappy local beer" is taking up shelf space, are store owners and beer managers stupid to not discontinue crappy local beer that sells? What is the proper balance between local, national, import, cider, etc. for a store to offer? A million variables affect best market practices. Every market is unique. The best independent retailers in this neck of the woods began adding local and regional choices years ago. The big chains are still playing catch up, but they've moved into the local business. A smart retailer (big chain or independent) knows how to cull slow movers. A store is either well run or not, but no smart retailer would discontinue a product that sells- or keep one that doesn't.

 

Quality as defined by batch to batch consistency. Quality as defined by the fact that if you crack open a bottle 3-6 months after bottling it's still drinkable and only slightly faded rather than a bland mess of a beer. Quality as defined by beer that has taste profiles other than the last hops thrown in the kettle.