Monkish Brewing (December 2016)

^ they essentially did that with the My First Canning Line DIPA - IIRC, it was announced something like 15 minutes before opening and the cans may have lasted an hour or two longer.

However, it was also released the day after the MFCL IPA and so a lot of people did not see a back-to-back release happening so their guards were down.

**EDIT - it was 45 minutes prior the day after the IPA release.

 

How's the growler fill line been? Hoping to head up in a bit but might be cutting it close to 9.

 

Last night it wasn't too bad at 5:30-6.

 

Sure, I think they could post right at 4 and be fine but, at some point, you can't satisfy everyone and make an exception for everyone. There were people from all over LA that have come already, but they are sacrificing something others are not willing to... whatever that is - job, money, their time, etc.

 

There's an opportunity cost to any choice you make in life. That's not the point, though. The clear and obvious problem, for most of us, that is, is the formation of lines. Any prior announcement guarantees this. If Monkish is as committed to issue mitigation as you say they are, they could test out releases without prior announcement, with seemingly minimal risk. If it works out, they can continue with this method so that a more diverse set of people get to enjoy their beers. As it is, only those who enjoy waiting in lines or live/work close enough to stop in at a moment's notice get to enjoy it.

While it's true you can't please everyone, going with the option that pleases the most people will garner goodwill and that's a big win for the brewery IMO.

 

how dare they advertise their own product!! we should boycott!

meanwhile, this is tasting amazing and was totally worth waiting in line for an hour

 

I am not sure pushing back the announcement time guarantees anything.

Also, I am not sure the issue they are trying to mitigate are the lines in general. The line itself is not an issue, many breweries get them. The issues were with how the line was managed at first as well as the littering and public drinking in line.

Also, when they say "they want more people to get their beer", they are not talking about stretching current production further. They are talking about making it more difficult for people to game the system and get more than 1 allotment per person.

At the end of the day, I agree that they would most likely be fine and most likely sell out the same day if they announced it at opening. Having said that, it is his business and maybe Henry does things the way he does because of reasons we aren't aware of. Maybe there are other considerations that are beyond us as consumers.

As an example, weekend releases arguably are the most convenient for the largest actual number of customers but the weekend releases are fraught with their own issues.

 

Haha.

Drank one last night as well, delicious.

 

Monkish just got their canning line at the end of September. There is going to be a ramp-up time when you move from contracting a mobile canning line to your own canning line as well as the learning curve for their new canning line, testing for the most ideal release schedule, etc.

They are a small brewery and are working toward more consistent releases. The canning line is a big step in that direction and maybe we see where they are at after 6 months with the machine instead of just 2 months.

Precisely!

 

There are never guarantees, but like I said before, the risk would be minimal. You already mentioned an announcement of 45 minutes still generated a sell-out within hours so it would be safe to assume an announcement at opening wouldn't change anything other than a later sell-out time.

I'm not certain about their motivations, but I never claimed to. Others have (quite possibly yourself? Forgive me. I have no time to search back). The line along with other problematic behavior are manifestations of the culture that's been cultivated. If you see no problem with lines because they also exist in other facets of consumer culture, that's fine. However, if you accept lines but reject line-cutting, public space BT verticals, public vomiting, child endangerment (since certain individuals are so determined to acquire cans they bring their children), and littering, then you have a conflict because the longer the lines, the more those instances are likely to occur.

Never said they were ramping up production to meet demand.

"Convenient" would be a poor choice of words.

 

It could also change people's behaviors. More people might think they can make it.

Take this last release - I could not get out of work until 4:40 and when I checked twitter, the number of people in line by that point deterred me from going. I had gotten home just after 5 when my buddy texted me to say that the line was minimal with some allotments left.

Had they announced at 4pm instead of 2pm, I would've gone directly without my friend's prompting. With the 2pm release and the status of the line, I decided to not even go until my friend alerted me to the situation and I happen to be close enough to make it in 20 minutes at around 5pm. It is entirely possible the later announcement means more people think they have a shot at it.

So, they might last later but the line could also be longer.

I've suggested their motivations aren't as "evil" as some others have suggested. For some reason, Modern Times can post an IG picture of their next release a week in advance but its considered a hype job if Monkish does it (with a far superior product) a couple of hours in advance.

As was said before, due to limited supply and high demand, the lines are unavoidable for releases from the brewery. At some point, Monkish cannot babysit everyone which is why they took steps to limit the problem - they moved to midweek releases to keep people from camping out overnight which was a major source of the in-line bottle shares.

Children are allowed at the brewery, so I am not sure why you think it is considered child endangerment.

Didn't say you did - you were said they should try to get their cans into a more "diverse" set of people. I was just pointing out that it could mean 330 different people getting those 330 allotments instead of ensuring people from all corners of the city get some of their beer.

Would it be? Even if there is a long line, if the release coincides with more people's built-in time off, that would be considered convenient timing even if the waiting is still a PITA.

 

That would be the point. It would give people beyond the current set of die-hards and immediate locals a chance to try. I'm unsure about what would happen, but it would interesting to see and worth a try.

I fall somewhere in the middle of the spectrum with regard to perception of the brewery's operations. I don't think they're evil, but it would be naive to suggest they don't enjoy the benefits of the commotion generated by these releases. My belief, which is likely an unpopular one, is that these companies possess the potential to shape the culture in certain ways, whether negative or positive. Any action they take has consequences and I believe it would be in their best interests to cultivate a culture that's sustainable long term.

Modern Times invests resources into community engagement so it shouldn't surprise you that they get a pass for actions that can be put in the hypebeast category. A lot of folks also like them because they've actively taken steps to be consumer-friendly (except for the prices of their barrel-aged offerings which are exclusionary IMO) through increased production and easy online transactions.

Some folks bring their children to overnight lines which exposes them to the worst behaviors possible. There's really no defense for this. The welfare of children should be prioritized over someone's desire to acquire goods. Of course the brewery's not directly responsible for this and they've made great strides in curbing this behavior by moving to weekday releases, but they haven't eliminated weekend releases completely.

As I pointed out earlier, "diverse" just means people beyond the current set of die-hards and immediate locals.

I'd argue that it's more convenient, practical, and logical to take an hour or so off work one day and make it up another day throughout the week. I realize not everyone has the capability to do this, but waiting in line overnight would be the opposite of convenience in my opinion.

 

Sure, I think it would be an interesting experiment as well. But, I also would not be surprised to see that it comes with its own issues. At the end of the day, it is not my business and I think being critical of a 2-hour lead time on the announcement is really getting to the point of splitting hairs.

IIRC, they did a release at 5pm on a Friday (after a 2pm open) and that was a complete mess and ruined. It was pre-announced which I thought was a poor move and may have added to the issues.

Maybe Monkish wants these cans releases to be done as quickly as possible so it doesn't impact "regulars" so getting people in line and selling cans early to begin beating down the length of the line might be seen as beneficial.

Who knows what their logic is behind it? Maybe they have a great reason to do it the way they do, maybe their reason isn't so good - but we're just speculating.

Also, nothing is preventing people outside the local area or the "die-hards" from trying currently. Is it a bigger pain in the ass? Sure, and it is the same for me and Noble can releases.

I think any small business would be ecstatic at gaining national attention for their products...

While I like the notion you've presented of a sustainable long term culture, I also am not sure why the breweries (and especially targeting 1 specific brewery) should bear the brunt of the responsibility for that. Almost every brewery that has gained popularity has had growing pains in terms of logistics and demand far outpacing supply.

I mean, a lot of this is driven by the secondary market. I don't think any brewers like seeing their beer being sold for far more than they sold it for and some random dude pulling down far more profit on that same bottle than the brewery did. But, they are also all limited in terms of what they can do - on one hand, it is no longer their product and its up to the new owner to decide what to do with it or you can spend an unreasonable amount of time chasing down and trying to close all the avenues secondary sales occur like Russian River did with eBay.

Side Project, de Garde, Perenniel, Westbrook... the brewers at all of these breweries have lamented what has happened to beer due to the secondary value but they really have little power to change it. Westbrook has taken to having high-priced bottles for on-site to help undercut the secondary market and the BA Mexican Cakes still pull down a lot of value.

Ultimately, if we want a change to this culture, it begins with us, IMO.

Sure, and I like MT and they are a larger brewery. Apples to oranges in many respects.

Partially funded by Kickstarter wasn't it - so it began with "community" funding and it would not surprise me to find out that they had much larger start up funds. Also, they may have had lower overhead costs since SD has been brewery friendly for 2 decades and LA county is just starting to become brewery friendly.

There are certainly people who do weird and dumb things but it is not Monkish's job to babysit or tell people how to parent (as you've noted). What can they do? Kick someone out of line for making a questionable but legal parenting decision? (Think a cop would just laugh if you tried to report someone for child endangerment for bringing their kid to a beer release.)

Keeping some weekend releases was done because so many people were upset with the move to weekday releases.

How does Monkish win? How can they try to promote their product without overhyping it? How do they make sure locals can get it but also a "more diverse" crowd from all over the city? How do they mitigate issues with bottle shares but also try to give people the perfect notice that enough in advance so people can plan but also not enough in advance to drive insane lines from showing up moments later.

Sure, I knew how you meant it. Just suggesting that they may view that same concept a bit differently - think they are concerned far more about people gaming the system than someone from Riverside getting an allotment.

Sure, but as you've noted not everyone can just bounce from work an hour early and some are willing to sacrifice more time waiting in exchange for the release occurring with time they already had off.

Takes all kinds.

 

Slow day at work?

 

Yes.

 

I'm doing what I normally do when I have a long paper to write--do everything i possibly can to avoid writing till the last minute.

 

How's the new draft batch of foggy tasting?

 

Thanks for the discussion @FinnishFox. Sadly, I have more words typed on this forum than in MS Word today. I'll have to get back to cycling other avoidance activities before I finally get back to paper-writing.

 

Cheers for the conversation @grilledsquid!