What makes a "world-class" beer?

Agree with much of what you say, but I wasn't really trying to say rarity has no effect, rather that rarity won't drive recognition of a beer without the quality being there first. There are lots of rare and hard to find beers most of us have never even heard of (e.g., I come accross them all the time in the Database on this site).

If we extend your example of Westvleteren 12 and St. Bernardus Abt to include the Rochefort 10, those three beers all fall into most anybody's definition of "outstanding" or world class, in other words they are members of what we might call the same "equivalence class." Any differences in how they are regarded will be a matter of personal preference rather than the quality of the beer. Personal preferences may indeed be influenced or driven by excitement over a beer or the rarity of a beer, but those things won't keep a beer at the top of various lists for any significant length of time without the quality having been there. That's why I'm suggesting that it isn't all excitement or rarity that keeps all three of them in high regard.

Similarly, I would argue that Heady and Dark Lord have become well known though the excitement generated by their limited availability but that would not have lasted as long as it has without there being quality to get the whole thing started and keep it desirable in the first place.

 

Ok I agree with a lot there as well. One more thing though: quality and rarity alone don't automatically cause hype. I mean think of Cantillons a few years ago.
Or even more, think of the hundreds of beers which come out of tiny franconian village breweries-all are of excellent quality, a lot are only aviable in one,maybe two,locations in limited quantities, yet there is-thank god-no hype sorrounding them, and basically none of them are recognized as "world class"...(I could write something similar for the wine world btw)

 

I wouldn't consider Dark Lord world-class with the considerable percentage of people who hate that beer. I wouldn't pay $5 for it.

 

Michael Jackson says the following (among other things) on what makes a great beer:

"[Strength] is not a measurement of quality. Balance...must always be achieved. After balance comes complexity. [E]ach time the drinker raises a glass...new dimensions of aroma and palate should become apparent...."

If a beer exhibits all of these more or less perfectly and consistently -- and in addition stands out by measure of its individuality among its "style" and/or was the "originator" -- then he considers it world-class.

 

That would rule out all the hop and coffee bombs on the Top Beers list.

 

You sir deserve a Gold Star!!

It has been touched upon in this thread: brewing is as much about process as it is a list of ingredients.

There are lots of nuances and thoughtful decisions that must be made when brewing a beer. An experienced and skillful brewer (or set of brewers for the larger breweries) along with the other staff of the brewery (e.g., ingredient buyers, materials inspection folks, QA/QC people, etc.) is what results in a high quality product that is consistently produced.

Cheers!

 

It would? Hmm...

 

Well since that list is just a popularity contest there's no loss in ruling them out.

 

The question posed in the OP, and several of the answers about the importance of the skills of the brewer, remind me of a joke I heard some years back.

A Tourist, with guide book in hand, stops a busy New Yorker who's passing by on the sidewalk while heading in the other direction.

The tourist says, "Pardon me, but how do I get to Carneige Hall?"

The New Yorker, before moving rapidly on, replies, "Practice!"

 

The portion of your post I emphasized would indicate that you've not tried the two iterations of Toppling Goliath's Pseudo Sue (one was brewed in Decorah, IA and the other is currently brewed in Lakeland, FL). They're not even remotely close to the same beer - yet they're the "same" beer.

I've always thought the key to any food or beverage product is the quality of the primary (or most voluminous) ingredient. The primary ingredient in beer is water, and I've seen nothing over my years of beer nerdery to indicate otherwise.

As for your statement that "a Mosaic hop is a Mosaic hop," I'll respectfully disagree. That's like saying, "a russet potato is a russet potato" or "a ribeye steak is a ribeye steak." After shopping at the Cub Foods store close to me, I can guarantee you that the quality of their ribeye steaks and russet potatoes isn't close to the quality of the products offered at my local Hy-Vee, especially the butcher case.

The quality of the "inputs" matters. A lot.

 

And if you are not a skillful cook you could indeed render those quality food items inedible.

Having high quality ingredients but less than skillful process yields a sub-optimum finished product whether that product is a cooked steak or a beer.

Cheers!

 

It smells, tastes, looks an feels about as good as anything you've ever had as it relates to the style of beer. That's world class.

 

World Class is usually associated to the most expensive but not always the best. I know someone that paid $200 for a shot of Louis XIII and wasn't impressed.

 

I was hoping this thread was going to be about doing away with the phrase "world class". I can't stand it. What does it even mean?

 

Good question, to be honest I don't have a clue , but you know it when you drink it. They're so few and far between it stuns you when you tie into one.

 

I totally agree, I hate the phrase, especially when applied to new, distinctly american syles. I also hate when people describe a beer as "fantastic", but that's another topic.

 

This kiwi fruit infused double barrel imperial porter is world class man

 

This is one question I love. If you ask me, I think there's a bunch of beers that are world class . . . and I don't even drink rare beers. Depends who you ask. I feel the beer community wants better instead of enjoying what's in front of them. I think every beer I've had from Lagunitas is world class, but that's just me.

 

All in the eye of the beholder, too subjective, it's not like saying someone has world class speed, or something that could actually be measured

 

I wish that I could like your post more than once. Taste is indeed subjective and there is no objective metric like your analogy of world class speed.

Cheers to you!!