Brew Day Question

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by TooHopTooHandle, Jan 12, 2017.

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  1. TooHopTooHandle

    TooHopTooHandle Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2016 New York

    Next weekend I am going to brew a 5.5 gallon EXTRACT NEIPA. I had a couple questions.
    My target OG is 1.052 using wyeast 1318 London ale III. If my recipe matters to answer these question I can post it. I don't mind sharing it, its similar to the Perfectly Average Northeast IPA with some changes.

    1) Will a 1 liter starter be big enough for this batch? What temps did this best ferment at to accent the NEIPA flavors?

    2) Using 6lbs of extra light dme, should I put it all in for the 60 minute boil or partial? (please explain)
    I will only be doing 1-60minute hop bittering addition of 1oz of Cascade the rest are flame out, whirlpool, and dry hop

    3) adding first round of dry hopping during fermentation (after 70% done?) what day would be best for this? I don't really want to open my fermenting bucket to take a sample if I don't have to. I want to open it as little as possible.

    4) I will be kegging this beer. So should I rack to secondary and let it sit there for 10-14 days and do the dry hop there in the last 4 days? or should I go straight from primary to keg and dry hop in keg?

    I have brewed several batches before all from kits, but I have never brewed just ordering all the ingredients before nor have I brewed a NEPIA and I really want that "Juice bomb" beer so I want to preform the proper steps to achieve this.
    Thank you for your advice/answers in advance.
     
    #1 TooHopTooHandle, Jan 12, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
  2. drinkybanjo

    drinkybanjo Crusader (457) Sep 4, 2008 New Jersey

    Here is what I do for beers that require dry hopping. Ferment in primary for 2 weeks, you could do samples and see when its done fermenting and then give it a few more days rest for clean up but I find that two weeks is a pretty safe time in the primary. I then transfer to keg and dry hop for 1 week in keg at 30 PSi. After 1 week I remove hop bag from keg, purge with CO2, and then tap it, it usually takes less than a week to be properly carbonated.

    I'm actually tapping my Pale Ale I brewed three weeks ago tonight! Looking forward to this one.
     
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  3. DrMindbender

    DrMindbender Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2014 South Carolina

    1. A 1 liter starter should be good with an OG of 1.052
    2. The only difference in adding DME early vs late will be the final color of the beer...if you want a lighter color beer/SRM, add it closer to flameout
    3. Go with around day 3 for your biotransformation dry hopping
    4. No need to secondary this beer...dry hop in the primary for biotransformation and keg hop for you other dry hop addition and you'll be fine

    Hopefully your steeping grains include some flaked oats and maybe some wheat to get the juicy suspension that you're looking for.
     
  4. Supergenious

    Supergenious Maven (1,273) May 9, 2011 Michigan

    A 1L starter is probably enough, but to be sure plug it into a pitch rate calculator. I like this one:
    http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/

    I've done a NEIPA that was double dry hopped. For the 1st round I added at day 4, wait until fermentation slows down. I would dry hop 2nd round in the keg. You don't want to secondary a NEIPA.

    Are you able to do full 5.5 gal boil? If so, I see no reason not to add all your extract. For a partial boil, might be best to not add all at the beginning.
     
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  5. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Use some wheat extract if you can't do a mini mash using wheat and/or oats.
     
  6. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    “My target OG is 1.052 using wyeast 1318 London ale III.” Just an editorial comment that an OG of 1,052 is more appropriate for a Pale Ale vs. an IPA. I am not specifically suggesting that you increase your OG; just pointing this out.

    “Will a 1 liter starter be big enough for this batch?” The yeast vendor (Wyeast) would instruct you that there is a sufficient amount of yeast cells in an Activator Smack-pack to properly ferment a moderate gravity ale (e.g., 1.052 in this instance). I personally agree with Wyeast here but others do not. It is entirely your decision here whether to make a starter. If you do decide to make a starter, a 1 liter starter is pretty small unless you are using a stir-plate. You will obtain more yeast propagation via 2 liter yeast starter.

    “What temps did this best ferment at to accent the NEIPA flavors?” I have seen folks opine that 1318 produces good flavors (esters) if the temperature of the liquid is in the low 70’s (e.g., 72-73 degrees F).

    Using 6lbs of extra light dme, should I put it all in for the 60 minute boil or partial? (please explain)” It depends on whether your goal is to achieve a very light colored beer or not. By adding some of the DME later in the boil (e.g., the last 15 minutes of boil) your resulting beer will be lighter in color. It is your choice here since this is an aesthetics issue.

    “adding first round of dry hopping during fermentation (after 70% done?) what day would be best for this?” There really is no way anybody could accurately answer this question. If you assume that you will reach the final gravity after 6 days then maybe at day 4 you will be around this stage?

    “I will be kegging this beer. So should I rack to secondary and let it sit there for 10-14 days and do the dry hop there in the last 4 days? or should I go straight from primary to keg and dry hop in keg?” I would suggest that you have two options here: dry hop in the primary once fermentation is complete (e.g., no more bubbling through the air-lock) or dry hop in the keg. Either way will ‘work’. Do not conduct a secondary here.

    “I really want that "Juice bomb" beer so I want to preform the proper steps to achieve this.” Well, I hate to be a Debbie Downer here but I am uncertain whether you will optimize the “Juice bomb” aspect via an all extract brew. Most of the commercially brewed ‘NE’ IPAs have something ‘extra’ beyond barley malt. Some use wheat malt, others use oat malt, while others will use flaked grains like flaked wheat, flaked oats,…

    I am pretty sure that you can brew a tasty, hoppy (hop flavor/aroma) beer solely using extract but I am not 100% certain that you can fully replicate the aspect of “Juice bomb” without using some grains other than barley malt.

    Maybe just give this a shot and report back your thoughts?

    Edit: @SFACRKnight made a good suggestion: use some wheat DME along with your extra light DME. Maybe 3 lbs. Extra Light DME and 3 lbs. Wheat DME would be the trick?

    Best of luck.

    Cheers!
     
  7. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    Don't guess, use this calculator (and be aware how the age of your "new" yeast effects everything:http://yeastcalculator.com/

    This should occur about 3-4 days after fermentation starts. Take a gravity reading and if it's anything close, then go ahead and add dry hops. Keep good notes and you'll develop a feel for this for each strain of yeast you use.

    Your keg is ideal for secondary/dry-hopping. Use something like a nylon paint strainer bag. Expect some hop debris to find it's way to the bottom of keg, so give it time to clear and be prepared to pour off some astringency-tasting beer initially.
     
  8. TooHopTooHandle

    TooHopTooHandle Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2016 New York

    thank you for the advice!! I will be using 12oz of flaked oats. Since you recommend skipping secondary, how long should I leave in primary?
     
  9. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Since those grains really should be mashed are you concerned about just steeping them? Maybe there will be residual starch in the beer (food for unwanted microorganisms)?

    Cheers!
     
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  10. TooHopTooHandle

    TooHopTooHandle Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2016 New York

    I can only do a 3 gallon boil. bigger kettle will be the next upgrade along with all grain brewing equipment
     
  11. TooHopTooHandle

    TooHopTooHandle Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2016 New York

    so what would you recommend doing with the flaked oats to prevent that
     
  12. TooHopTooHandle

    TooHopTooHandle Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2016 New York

    Thanks for all the great advice! I will pick up some wheat DME. I will report back once this is complete!
     
  13. DrMindbender

    DrMindbender Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2014 South Carolina

    Yeah...you could just steep them as usual and you'd get some of the oat/wheat effect in the beer, but doing a mini-mash would be best. @TooHopTooHandle ...you can do a mini-mash by simply steeping for 60 minutes at around 150-153 instead of for 20-30 minutes as usual with an extract batch. I would suggest doing it BIAB style since its really nothing more than buying a $6-$7 BIAB bag and following your extract recipe for everything else. http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewmaster-filter-bag-214-214 http://homebrewacademy.com/biab-bag-review/
     
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  14. Supergenious

    Supergenious Maven (1,273) May 9, 2011 Michigan

    Ideally, primary hops should have 5-7 days of contact. So if added on day 3-5, total primary should be between 8-12 days.
     
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  15. TooHopTooHandle

    TooHopTooHandle Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2016 New York

    what is the difference between using a muslin bag and the biab bag
     
  16. TooHopTooHandle

    TooHopTooHandle Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2016 New York

    what effect will the wheat DME have? and should I scratch the flaked oats if I use the wheat DME? I plan to do a mini mash for my flaked oats now @JackHorzempa
     
  17. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Effectively the same thing. You can reuse the biab bag while the muslin bag is a one use bag.

    Cheers!
     
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  18. TooHopTooHandle

    TooHopTooHandle Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2016 New York

    ok excellent. I have around 10-15 muslin bags so if it does the same thing I will use those up
     
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  19. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    The Wheat DME is produced from a combination of Wheat Malt and Barley Malt. The Wheat Malt is high(er) in proteins. You want these increased proteins for your 'NE' stlyle IPA to encourage the qualities of a soft mouthfeel and "juice bomb".
    This is entirely your choice. The Flaked Oats will also increase the softness of the mouthfeel. It could be argued that if you are using the Wheat DME the Flaked Oats is 'superfluous'. But you could also argue that 'more' of this soft mouthfeel is 'better'. No real right or wrong decision here.

    Brewing just with DME (Wheat DME and Extra Light DME) would be a simpler brew since you wouldn't need to conduct a mini-mash.

    One thing to keep in mind is that Flaked Oats do not have the ability to self convert (insufficient diastatic power) so you will need to add an equal amount of malt (e.g., pale malt or wheat malt) for the mini-mash to 'work'.

    Cheers!
     
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  20. TooHopTooHandle

    TooHopTooHandle Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2016 New York

    excellent information! someone was stating to do a mini mash for the flaked oats to ensure I don't get unwanted starches. I would want to add the wheat dme or extra light dme in with this mini mash? so for 12oz of flaked oats I would want to add at least 12oz of either of the DMEs for the mini mash to work effectively
     
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