Should the saison style be divided up?

I agree

 

I do not.

 

I think most barrel aged beers should have their own category, considering they vary quite a lot from traditional style.

For saisons I'd probably do "Saison," "American Saison," "Barrel Aged Saison" and "Fruit- Saison."

Same thing for stouts/ porters. "Coffee stout," "Barrel aged stout," etc.

 

I await @zid 's opinion on this. Having tried several, I figure he'd have a better outlook on this than I would.

 

If anything I'd probably go with Belgian and American, so long as that still generally means the same as it applies to other styles (i.e. American style uses more hops).

I think Barrel Aged beers need to be separated as a category because they are so prolific and different from the traditional styles but I would make Saison a subset of the barrel aged category rather than the other way around.

 

I'm always for more styles and categorization. I think it makes for better recommendations and more accurate representations of preferences. Plus I really like specificity and categorization as a concept.

I'd like to see barrel-aged categories (but certainly not one catch-all for "barrel-aged"), and I'd also like to see IPA split further (NE/English/West Coast/maybe even Midwest). As to this topic, saisons definitely need it. Belgian/American/wild/BA/fruited/dark.

 

It seems to me that when an American brewery makes a farmhouse ale, odds are it will taste more like what I expect a saison to taste like. You never know what an American saison will taste like unless you know the brewery.

Like most style issues, I think the breweries should just do better with labeling. If it's not exactly a saison, "Belgian Ale" should be the catch-all. Almanac, who I love, may be the worst offender. I've never had any saisons that sour before and would only call their canned saisons (Dolores and Mandarina), saisons. I know I'm buying a "sour" when I pick one up, not a saison.

As for fruit, as long as the bottle clearly says "Saison with X Fruit" I don't see the need to add a separate category. Otherwise, we'd need a fruited category for every style. I think that's a but much and could get out of hand quickly.

 

NE IPA will almost certainly be a new category at the GABF within 3 years, right? Black IPA (or whichever of the 4 names they chose) seemed to get adopted right away. Maybe they're avoiding regional names though, and would go with another name (hazy....whatever the more official technical name would be). But they clearly have to do something. How do you judge Triluim or Monkish against something like Fat Head?

 

@zid

I do not agree. For example......

Ipas can be low to high ABV. Light to dark. Sour, black, funky with added bacterias.

Just because you put "tart" "double" "session" is irrelevant. Anything hoppy is an ipa.

Anything Belgian yeast without strict guidelines is a saison? Same logic. Also saison meaning season, is more a thing about harvest and making the beer from whichever grains available at that season of Brewing to pay farm laborers with. There's more to it than just a beer style.

Ipas have become this. Brewers are adding those "quirky" adjuncts as you say. Lactobasilus, coffee, fruit. The base remains constant. Honestly. If a brewer made a blonde ale with a Belgian yeast, it's a saison. If they made an amber with it. It's a saison. All oats and belgian yeast? Saison. Thats the fun in it that every one is unique.

I believe that true saison is not brewed to styles and just with whatever the brewer has on hand with specific type of yeast strain.

 

Leave it alone I believe...what @Urk1127 said. It is a catch all style and those who do deviate (like dry hopping) they are pretty upfront about it so you know what you are getting

 

Uggghhhh no, let's take all the similar styles to saison and make fewer distinctions. How many of us geeks even know what Biere De Garde is? Biere De Chamnpagne? What is the difference between a Flanders and a Saison? So, IMO there are already too many divisions of saison to be a helpful consurmer guide.

 

I imagine they'll likely just call it "unfiltered IPA" or something similar, rather than have it be a regional name.

Sort of like Hefeweizen and Kristalweizen.

Wouldn't they call it a Belgian Pale Ale? Or maybe an Abbey Ale or Table Beer?

I completely agree.

I also think before everyone starts splitting styles up into subcategories, let's wait awhile to see how many actually stick.

Brewer's are coming up with so many whacky combinations, they almost seem endless. But how many Brett IPAs aged in Maple Syrup Bourbon Barrels with Raspberries from random breweries, or not so random breweries (looking at you Founders), do you see sitting on shelves?...especially in the 750 mL format...

 

It's a catch all phrase like "ale". Over misuse of the word has left it meaningless. Kill it altogether. It's time for brewers to create thier own vocabulary.

 

But they already did, who do you think introduced the term "Saison" or the term "Ale" or the term "Beer" in the first place?

 

So we should just stop there? When a description is used incorrectly and too often it's time for some new vocabulary. Hill Farmstead now used Farmhouse Ale. Suarez Family uses Country beer. There are other examples as well. You will see this expand and I'm glad.

 

Yeah, there should be a differentiator. Perhaps something like "Traditional Style" and "New Wave" Saisons. And yes, I think the SunnyD beers (I call them American Orange Ales) should be culled from the ranks of real IPAs. I do not though, think barrel-aging any style changes the base beer. You add coffee, maple syrup, eggs, bacon, ham, homefries, and pancakes to an Imperial Stout, it's still an ImpStout. Just because you then dump that beer into a rum barrel doesn't change the fact that, it, indeed, is an ImpStout in the barrel.

 

Didn't say or even suggest we should stop there.

But if you want to eliminate a problem you go to the source of the problem, in this case the brewers themselves, rather than blame any bystanders who are trying to make sense of the whole thing and use terminology to the extent of their undertanding of what the brewers are saying.

So you are absolutely correct that the brewers should be involved but what they should be involved in is cleaning up the mess they themselves have created.

 

I agree, categorize IPAs (Black, DIPA, Session, West Coast, NE style, etc) and other styles. I always thought Saisons really ran the gamut, could be light or amber, low or high ABV, funky or not...so I vote yes

 

You really only need 3 substyles. Obviously the titles need some work, but with these 3 I think we as consumers would know a general idea as to what type of beer we would be getting upon purchase. And of course ABV is listed on the bottle to help the consumer out as well:

"traditional"
"hoppy"
"funky"