Idea for Sierra Nevada

Unfortunately, I suffer from a condition where my tongue is almost always in my cheek. But in this case, my tongue was only half-way there. I'll just say that I think "it's complicated" and leave it at that since it's too off topic.

If you look to those beers to map out the "through-line of delineation" for Czech vs German, you'll find that it isn't possible to make a very good one.

Check out (pun intended) the thread that @AlcahueteJ was referencing for possible answers to your questions about Urquell and debates on the entire Czech/German divide as well:
https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/a-good-czech-pilsner.488048/

 

Most of the people who drink Sierra Nevada brews don't care about freshness dates or even know they exist.

 

Czech pale lagers are actually a lot more defined in their native country than "german Pilsners" are in germany. Though they are simply usually not defined as "czech pils", but are referred to by degree plato and colour, and/or if they are unfiltered or not or re-fermented with yeast or not.
The czech way of categorizing their native beers is the most precise one I've ever seen...

 

What does Sierra Nevada cost in New Jersey? I ask because it is $28 a case in Delaware(and 80% of the United States) and $38 here in Pennsylvania.

Edit we have left over bricks of SN here after each season also.

 

Funny you should mention that! I have never previously thought to describe the flavor as "buttery" per se, but I did take note of the diacytel discussion in that previous thread.

And because of that, I recently purchased of single of Miller High Life in a
can in order to carry out this test:

http://www.professorbeer.com/articles/diacetyl.html

Trouble is, I can't find any artificial butter flavor! The only kind I've been able to find is some Orville Redenbacher thing that's suspended in oil and appears to have additional flavors. So for now I must wait...

But diacytel is certainly a contender, especially if this line on that website is accurate:

"A few beer styles may benefit from the additional complexity afforded by a small amount of diacetyl, but many professional brewers shun the chemical, most especially German brewers".

 

But it's not personal preference. The examples I listed do in fact exist. That's a fact, not a personal preference.

Maybe @meefmoff would prefer something akin to a Notch Pils, which is a different style of Czech Pils.

Both a West Coast-style IPA such as Green Flash's, and a "New England-style" IPA (which doesn't even have a style designation like different styles of Czech Pils do) such as Trillium's Congress Street are both under the style name, "American IPA" but they're very different beers.
I understand your point, the different examples of Czech Pils are mostly not available on the shelves here in the US. And there are general differences between the BJCP's definition of both German and Czech. My attempt was not to be misleading though. In fact, I would say MANY of the beers labeled "Czech Pils" here in the US are misleading

 

Yeah, I know it's a murky line (especially with American interpretations) which is why I'm kind of intrigued with what the hell is going on with my palate and/or mind As I say I upstream, I really need to sit down and do some blind tasting and ranking. I don't for a minute think I'll be able to neatly divide the two styles, but I do feel pretty confident that there will be something of a correlation.

And I took part in that older thread a bit towards the end, which is actually why this issue was on the tip of my brain.

Anyway, my apologies for leading things a bit off topic here.

 

I honestly don't remember what I thought of Notch's pils other than the fact that I never thought to seek it out after trying it. That's probably a good example to give another go. I've loved everything else at their brewery though.

An no worries on the confusion guys. I love nitty gritty stuff so just hearing the issue tossed around is informative and interesting.

 

I love these ideas! Would love to see their Kolsch be a 12 pack summer offering. Would love to see the Vienna come back on its own, and thinks @zid 's idea of a non-Ovila (perhaps just a simple belgian blond or even patersbier?) are all great ideas. Unfortunately, like we've seen with so many other brewers, it seems to me that the marketability of IPA's is just too great to pass on. Don't get me wrong, the 4-Way packs are great, but when so much time and effort go into to following (and sometimes leading in SN's case) these trends, the other styles seem too easy to dismiss. Which is a damn shame especially in Sierra Nevada's case because, guess what? They already have one of the greatest IPA's!!! (Torpedo, if anyone was unclear of that .)

Please Sierra Nevada... do your fans a great service and make these other styles more readily available. You guys are so good at it, and would be a shame not to share your talents on a grander scale. Cheers!

 

I think you are 100% wrong there. I care a great deal about beer being "fresh", but, based on a lot of experience, Sierra Nevada simply holds up better than many other breweries, large and small.

Or are you implying that most who enjoy SN aren't true "craft connoisseurs" and closer to folks who simply enjoy Bud/Miller/Coors?

 

Oh crap, I didn't even realize (actually I knew it, based on participation in the New England forums...I forgot, my bad) you were from Mass!

So you've been to the brewery? That's a great place to go to try lots of different, less brewed (in the US anyhow) styles. Especially Czech styles.

Plus, you can pick Chris' brain about brewing different Czech styles and his experiences in the Czech Republic. Maybe you could do a blind tasting there?

 

At the end of the season all the seasonals are cleared out? I know here in MA I can still get each of their seasonals months after they were released (and they're probably still there when the next seasonal is released as well, which backs up the process).

 

They don't even make it to the end of the season for the most part.

 

Most people who drink craft beer aren't "craft connoisseurs". They just enjoy better beer and don't think much about it.

 

Seeing SN's lagers get so much praise on this site makes me happy.

 

Sierra Nevada should ditch that horrible NOONER garbage and just make SUMMERFEST their showcase Pilsner. Nooner is too grapefruity and has no malt backbone which makes it completely one dimensional and dull. Its not a Pilsner in my book. Summerfest is an exceptional and crisp, true Pilsner. A Vienna Lager would be an excellent addition to their year-round lineup.

 

Thanks for clarifying.

 

Outside of the Czech republic, or Bohemia, I would say that there exists such a concept as the Bohemian Pilsener, or Pilsener, or Pilsener lager beer, and that this concept has existed for well over 100 years by now. When the Pilsener lager beer was imitated outside of Pilsen the brewers went for the lager beer (what today in the Czech republic would be called lezak) variant, just as they imitated the Vienna lager and Munich lager beers. Any lager beer brewery back in the day would have known that the Bohemian breweries put out a lower gravity schankbier of ca 10% and a higher gravity lager beer of ca 12%, just as the Austrian brewers put out a lower gravity schankbier of ca 10%, a higher gravity lager beer of ca 13% and a higher gravity beer known as Märzen of ca 15%, and just as Bavarian brewers put out a lower gravity schankbier/winterbier of ca 12% and a higher gravity lager beer of ca 13-14%. This division between the lower gravity schankbier and higher gravity lagerbier eventually disappeared in the countries and regions where bottom fermented beers were imitated and brewed, and it mostly went away also in Bavaria and Austria as well (due to changes in taxation schankbier in Germany has been relegated to a low enough gravity as to make it irrelevant). The Czech republic, i.e Bohemia and Moravia etc. is arguably the one country which has maintained this division, with lower gravity schankbier making up a majority of beer sales as recently as a few years ago, just as it did back in the second half of the 19th century.

In the rest of the world the term "lager beer" over time became equivalent to the word bottom fermented and cold stored, and it was the lager beer imitations which laid the foundation for this. The concept for the Pilsener, or Bohemian Pilsener, as it is understood outside of the modern day Czech republic, is based on a particular kind of beer, the Pilsener lager beer (i.e today's PU, though in the past the bürgerliches brauhaus in Pilsen also made a 10% schankbier). For someone who learns about the Czech system of classifying beers (which is based on the Austrian Hungarian system of beer taxation introduced in 1855 as well as the historical division between lager and schankbier), it is understandable if this concept will seem incomplete, but I would argue that it does not seek to be an all encompassing guide to Czech beer, but it seeks to exemplify the model which inspired countless brewers the world over to brew a pale, well attenuated bottom fermented beer, and this history can be seen in the style guidelines which exist today.

I often get the sense when reading style guidelines that the authors try to straddle history along with an ever changing present, and this is obviously a challenging task if one wants to make a coherent and succinct description of something which has more than a century worth of history behind it. Do they uphold an historical understanding which might run the risk of being increasingly outdated, or do they try to capture a description of the elusive (and increasingly complex) present? Or a combination of both (this to me seems like the path chosen by most style guidelines)? Either way the end result will be imperfect in my opinion.

 

All depends on the mood I'm in. But SN will always be held in high regard by me, whether I'm tasting the latest Summerfest to give a connoisseur's rating or just slugging it down while my wife waits for the ribs to finish on the grill. To that -- I do check the dates on most beers I buy, but I'm probably not as "discerning" as some tickers.

I think we need a new word for the connoisseurs who really aren't.

 

sierranevadabill mentioned that it would be coming back in a draught format this summer.

Post #48 in the below link
https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/sierra-nevada-4-way-ipa.479175/page-2#post-5277430