Imperial Hefeweizen

While there may not be an 'official' beer style of Imperial Hefeweizen (and I am not a supporter of creating another beer style), if some beer organization decided to create another beer style of Imperial Hefeweizen then IMO Weihenstephaner Vitus would be the classic beer of that style.

Cheers!

 

If we can go way back, let's have a look at Braunschweiger Mumme. Here's one old recipe:


In order to make a barrel containing 63 stubchen, the water for the brew must be boiled to 66% of its original volume. After that step is completed according to the art of the day, add seven scheffel (20 liters) of ground wheat malt, one scheffel of ground barley malt, and one scheffel of field beans. Then brew as usual. When the wort is fassed, the vat must not be filled to full at the start. Now, when the wort begins to work, add to it:

3 pounds of the inner bark of the blue spruce tree
3 pounds of the buds from the blue spruce tree
1 pound of buds from the birch tree
3 hands full of dried karbo-denedictine weed.
2 hands full of sunflower seeds
1 hand full each of the following: Bibernell, benthonic, marjoram, Benedictine spice, pollen, juniper berries, and thyme.
3 oz. pulverized cardomen
1 oz. of crushed bay leaves


Add all of the above to the vat so that the liquor moistens the spices. Next keep the fluid from rising above the spices and fill the vat to the top. When the vat is filled, add 10 freshly laid eggs, the shells neither cracked nor broken. Seal the vat tightly. After the beer is aged for two years, the brew can be tapped. If the "mummy" stays on top of the brew, the taste is better.
Before fassing the beer, add six hands full each of black burgundy and parsley.
To that, add six hands full of freshly ground horseradish. I have personally noticed that the horseradish makes a fresher drinkable Mumme than if it were left out.

 

Why I prefer Aventinus much more; it looks, smells, and taste much more like what, at least I, expect from the style. The malty, dark fruit flavors are more prominent. And after a few years, as the traditional banana and clove favors fade a bit, the dark fruit comes through even more.

 

Just wow... I've never thought of using freshly laid eggs to add to my beers... Is that the source of the yeast to ferment the beer? They seal the vat tightly immediately afterwords.

 

My wife's family has lived in or around Braunschweig for centuries. I asked to be able to try Mumme when I first visited. They said there was one guy still making it, but that I really didn't want to try it...as it "tastes terrible."

 

On Topic. I am also of the opinion that Weizenbock's are imperial hefeweizens. To the person saying the Vitus just tastes like a bigger hefeweizen... That IS what the imperial prefix means.

An Imperial Stout is truly nothing more than a bigger stout.
Double IPA's are also Imperial IPA's... They were originally IIPA. And is just a bigger IPA. More of what makes the beer an IPA.

The Imperial was used in british brewing before they started exporting strong stouts to the Russian court. They just used it as one of the levels of the strength of their beer... Although of course they were notoriously bad at using consistent naming conventions.

 

Did you try it? (Or find out any details?)
I would guess that it resembled a more modern Mumme or a more conventional beer (relatively speaking).

 

Do you have a source for this information? Everything I've ever read points to "Imperial" being more of a marketing term than anything, mostly equating to "the best."

A good read from a good source: Ron Pattinson.

As to Double IPA getting the "Imperial" tag, just another misuse of the term.

 

Mumme isn't real beer.

Unless it's an Imperial Mumme. Then it's cool.

 

Well I will start with http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2009/03/imperialising.html
But then in the post you point out they don't say anything about Imperial Stouts being the ones exported to Russia. It points out there was a wide range of stouts and other beers being exported to Russia. The strongest was the one with the label "Imperial" and that was the most popular with the Russian court because:
"There were export beers at the usual gravities. 1056 to 1100. Why was Russian Stout so strong, then? Because it was for the Russian flipping court. They always got top of the range. 1100. That was the magic number. Whether it was Edinburgh Ale, Strong Burton Ale or Stout. The very best had gravities over 1100."

 

Last year I tried the Mumme recreation that tastes much like Altbier. Never got to try the more mysterious elixir....

 

I can see the direction of the theory, but it's still only a strength designation through marketing -- and centuries old British marketing at that. Tacking "imperial" on to any style to designate strength is nothing more than a gimmick -- especially when there's already other traditional terms at play, as in Weizenbock, so imperial would seem redundant.

 

Now I wanna know about that "imperial table beer."

 

@zid Me too.

@steveh Beer styles in and of themselves are nothing but marketing. They are how a brewer sold their beer to their consumer. If someone wanted a young beer they would have bought a mild. If they wanted a beer made from brown malt they would have bought a porter. If they wanted an oxymoron they would have bought an "Imperial Table Beer".

Even "bock" started out as essentially marketing speak. People wanted one of the strong beers from Einbeck so they would order one. That evolved into Bockbier. It was all just a combination of marketing and consumer demand.

Then comes the tax laws. Where the government defined bock as a lager of at least 16 Plato.

All the term "imperial" refers to is the strongest tier of a style of beer. Yes it was marketing but so was the definition of the style itself.

By saying Weizenbock's are imperial hefeweizens nobody is trying to say that it is an english style hefeweizen. Just that it is the stronger version of the weizen that the brewer makes.

 

To @steveh 's point... is that appropriate though? Ignoring redundancy, it's culture clash. One can argue that American brewers will mix and match terms regardless of source within their own sandbox, but that's not my idea of an ideal. Frankly, it would lead to a total misunderstanding of the German terms. If Americans insist on "imperial", I'd rather they leave the German terms alone and just say "imperial wheat beer."

 

I agree with most everything above (yes, even Bock evolving into a marketing gimmick -- but the city of Einbeck may argue that), but my point is that there's no real reason to tag something that is already designated as strong with a second nickname.

Using "imperial" always seemed like some sort of beer geek inside joke. "Imperial" Weizen makes no real sense when you know there's been Weizenbock for so many generations -- at least to those of us who take the time to read about beer history.

 

Whether it literally refers to higher strength or is marketing referring to (or implying) the best, this was also used in the US in mid 1800s. John Taylor and Sons marketed both an "Albany Imperial XX Ale" in 1857 and "Albany Imperial Cream Ale" in the 1860s:

http://www.drinkdrank1.com/2012/10/albany-ale-xxs-and-ohs-part-2.html

I do think that "bock" and "imperial" mean roughly the same things (bigger version of a beer) and beers in the German tradition already bock-ize rather than Imperialize their beers, so weizenbock rather than imperial weizen makes more sense to me. The answer is not to create new categories. The answer is to do more research. And drink more beer. And travel to Germany. And drink more beer.

 

Couldn't we just use Wheatwine then? That is just an "American Imperial Wheat Beer."

 

Well, I know a zinfandel from a white zinfandel, but what is the difference between a dunkel and a dunkelweizen? And while we're at it, where can I find a good summary of all the different technical styles? My knowledge of the breakdowns of German styles is a bit limited.

 

https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/style/46/ -- https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/style/91/

https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/style/