Choosing hops

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Granitebeard, Mar 9, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Granitebeard

    Granitebeard Zealot (549) Aug 24, 2016 Maine

    I know I just asked how to make my Stout better, but it will be a little before I brew that again. And even though my Pale Ale isn't what I expected, I will hold off on brewing that again. So I decided to take my Pale Ale tweak and make an IPA. My current problem is choosing hops. I will be growing Cascade so plan to use that, but want something for bittering and potentially something else for flavor/aroma. But my issue is, what to choose. I like the British hops I have had/used but even then knowing if they well go well is up in the air. Looking at other people's recipes seem helpful, but when trying to get "profiles" of some hops used, they seem vague or like something I don't want. I saw something about Bullion hops and thought that sounded good, but they seem hard to find. And again, I am not sure if that is what I really want.

    So long and short of it, how do you go about choosing hops? Shoot in the dark and hope it works (as I am fairly new to creating my own recipes)? Or something more methodical?

    Also, given that I will most likely be using pellets, does a hop bag work with these for dry hoping? And how long does dry hop flavor last?
     
  2. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Maven (1,374) May 2, 2006 Utah

    I suggest tasting commercial beer that feature particular hops to get a feel for their flavor and aroma.

    If you want an American IPA, then you'll want to use hops with big character. Good choices (that I have used) include Centennial, Simcoe, Citra, Chinook, Cascade, Amarillo, and Mosaic. Lots of the "heirloom" hops, such as Bullion, typically do not have the character that modern IPA drinkers are looking for.

    If you want a British style IPA, the classic British hops include Challenger, First Gold, and East Kent Goldings. Typically, these hops don't have the punch of more modern American varieties.

    Yes, you can use a hop bag for dry hopping with pellets. I prefer nylon bags due to my feeling (not confirmed) that muslin bags are likely to shed fibers.

    If an IPA is handled carefully (i.e., minimal O2 exposure and cold storage), the dry hopping character can last for months (in my experience).

    Cheers!
     
  3. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    UOTE="Granitebeard, post: 5323824, member: 1170932"][/QUOTE]make an IPA[/QUOTE]

    Must specify which kind as they are almost night and day to each other.
    American IPA=proprietary hops in abundance...English IPA=more subtle with Kent Goldings and any of several med/high alpha varieties, and more crystal malt, and a less attenuative yeast (although not always) usually, imho
     
    SFACRKnight likes this.
  4. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I agree with using commercial examples, however I find commercial hops used by commercial brewers sometimes do not reflect the same characteristics of the hops homebrewers have available. Personally I am never scared to try a new hop, and have only once made a combo I didn't enjoy. Cascade and Northern Brewer. Yuck
     
    GormBrewhouse likes this.
  5. Granitebeard

    Granitebeard Zealot (549) Aug 24, 2016 Maine

    As to type, not sure. This is what I was thinking for a recipe (and yes again, I am pretty much a noob at making recipes so bear with it) using Brewcipher with "American IPA" as the selected type, but that was mostly because I didn't see a generic IPA choice:
    -5.75lb 2-row
    -.625lb Caramel/Crystal 40L
    -.375 Carapils
    -.125 Aromatic (what my shop has is darker then what brewcipher says but I like this stuff)
    -3.3lb Golden Light LME

    Not sure which type that grain bill is more like. I looked up a few different recipes online and in the end look more at the "Averagely Perfect American IPA", so guess that is probably more the style. Other then Cascade, I am not sure what to use. I have had a many IPAs in my time but am not sure on hops used and can say some have been rather disappointing. Of the ones I know the hops, one was meh (galaxy) and a few others had 4 or 5 different types of hops list so who knows what I was tasting. UK hops like Target, Challenger, EKG, Fuggle, and Willamette I know, and like. Cascade and cluster are the only real US hops I can say I have knowing used (at least since keeping my recipes). I am sure I have had others and some I am sure I like, just I am not sure which, where and when.

    Also my yeast is still up in the air. I typically go with "British styles" but have used a few US/generic styles to my liking too. I always feel like I am making hybrid US and UK ales.

    Edit after seeing SFACRKnight's post: Yea I am not scared either, I just want to feel like I have more control then just throwing things in an hoping for the best.
     
    SFACRKnight likes this.
  6. HopsintheSack

    HopsintheSack Initiate (0) Apr 17, 2012 California

    Get on the hype train and go Citra/Galaxy!
     
  7. minderbender

    minderbender Initiate (0) Jan 18, 2009 New York

    There are a lot of good suggestions in this thread. You can also check out this helpful Mad Fermentationist post documenting the hops used in a variety of IPAs.

    On some level, though, I think you have to experiment, there is only so far that theorizing or reading about it will take you.

    For what it's worth, I just brewed a hoppy beer with Columbus, Simcoe, and Centennial, and I am very happy with that combination. It has a very strong grapefruit character, which is exactly what I was going for.
     
    GormBrewhouse likes this.
  8. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I like chinook or columbus for bittering and flavor, citra and columbus late and for dryhopping. Mmmm columbitrook.
     
    GormBrewhouse and HopsintheSack like this.
  9. Granitebeard

    Granitebeard Zealot (549) Aug 24, 2016 Maine

    You haven't met me, I am that guy who is like "OH everyone loves this, yea I kind of am not sure about it...". Or at least to an extent. I still have a flip phone for a cell phone for instance.
     
    GormBrewhouse and HopsintheSack like this.
  10. HopsintheSack

    HopsintheSack Initiate (0) Apr 17, 2012 California

    Probably best not to try that combo then.....or a smart phone. Once you do it's hard to go back :wink:
     
  11. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    For making your own recipes, I recommend you spend time looking at other recipes, brew a few recipes that seem popular/tried&true of styles that you like or think you'd like-- the averagely perfect IPA is a good example, or recipes from Jamil Zainasheff's or Gordon Strong's books. Then start looking at some ingredients you think you would want to substitute. "How would this taste with galaxy hops at the end of the boil, this yeast is supposed to be interesting, is there a difference between this maltser's crystal malt and that one's?" Make gradual changes to things you already have some familiarity with so you can assess the impact of the change.

    You'll have a few opportunities to brew some batches with store bought pellet cascades and whole hop cascades before your hops are harvested, so one of your gradual change experiments could be an IPA featuring different types of cascade.

    A word on hops. They are an agricultural product and we love them for secondary compounds they produce, various hop oils. These compounds will vary a bit year to year, and can deteriorate in processing, storage and transportation. Some big commercial brewers have an opportunity to pick the best of the best. What is available to homebrewers is not always the best. This seems especially true (in my opinion) of hops imported from England and continental Europe. Maybe it's the commercial guys hogging things up, maybe it is deterioration, or maybe I just haven't been lucky enough to get good ones (I have been disappointed several time by English hops, especially whole hops, which maybe don't preserve as well).
     
    SFACRKnight likes this.
  12. GormBrewhouse

    GormBrewhouse Pooh-Bah (2,111) Jun 24, 2015 Vermont
    Pooh-Bah

    When I started brewing my own recipes, I'd check out other home brew kits and see what they used, then adjusted.

    One of my favorite IPA hop schedules is
    1 oz cascade 60 min and 45 min
    1 oz chinook30 min
    1 oz cascade Columbus citra 15 5 and FO
     
    HopsintheSack and Granitebeard like this.
  13. Elvis_on_Bass

    Elvis_on_Bass Crusader (453) Jul 25, 2016 New York

    One of your original questions is how do we select hops. I can appreciate your line of thinking, part of homebrewing is not making what everyone else is making, it is hard to do that with an American IPA, and sometimes they are hopped with so many things that you can't quite put your finger on what you like. Take what I say with a grain of salt, I don't do a lot of IPA style beers but I don't see how my general strategy couldn't help.

    From where you are I would first define the yeast, this is what I would define my flavoring hops from, aroma a little less so, bittering you can generally get away with anything. You then want to define your target IBU and find a combination that hits this. I find that the typical BU:GU +/- 0.1 works very well for a first attempt, but I do push this quite a bit once I know exactly the character is that I am shooting for.

    On the flavoring hops I try to match the country of origin, then I try to match this with a profile that I like, generally some research will get you in the ballpark of what you are looking for (citrus, piney, floral, etc...). This will make the most guaranteed palatable beer, not because it is superior but because it is what our years of tasting beer tell us it should taste like. On the aroma I try to emphasize one or two primary characteristics from the flavoring, I don't care to get hit with every possible hop aroma that exists.

    This next point may be something of some contention, but it works for me. I try to stay away from high alpha acid hops for all additions. These tend to give me a bitterness that I don't really care for and doesn't seem to fit, but your own taste buds have to be your guide on this one.

    I will resist suggestions, I am all over the board and don't always follow others typicals.
     
    Granitebeard likes this.
  14. Granitebeard

    Granitebeard Zealot (549) Aug 24, 2016 Maine

    I will admit I am happy to see someone say something like this. While looking at hops for this beer, this is something I have been leaning towards as well. I can't say I hate all the High Alpha acid, but at the same time I don't think I am ready dive into that just yet.
     
  15. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    @Granitbeard, do you wanna learn about hops?

    If the answer is yes, then I strongly recommend that you buy the book:

    For The Love of Hops: The Practical Guide to Aroma, Bitterness and the Culture of Hops (Brewing Elements) by Stan Hieronymus.

    Cheers!
     
    GormBrewhouse and SFACRKnight like this.
  16. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    High alpha often correlates with high oil content -- even if you want to avoid these as buttering additions you may want to try them for flavor and aroma as late boil, whirlpool, and dry hop addition
     
  17. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I thought it was the yeast that did that!?!:rolling_eyes:

    Cheers!
     
    SFACRKnight and pweis909 like this.
  18. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    You know these newfangled hops - the breeders can make them smell like anything they like.
     
    JackHorzempa likes this.
  19. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Some bittering hops are just as good for flavor and aroma...some should be used exclusively for bittering, imho...I'm looking at you, Topaz :astonished:
     
    SFACRKnight likes this.
  20. Granitebeard

    Granitebeard Zealot (549) Aug 24, 2016 Maine

    I think I am leaning towards using Wyeast American Ale II, Wouldn't mind West Coast IPA, but not sure my LBHS will have it.

    Other then Cascade, I think I am leaning towards Galena. Using it at 60 and 15 and 5 min. Cascade will be 15 and 5. Maybe something at flame out (something I haven't done with hops before) and 1oz each as a dry hop.

    For dry hopping, is there any sanitation process for the hops? I get sanitizing the hop bag, but are the hops OK by them selves?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.