Pints and Politics: Time for Another Round?

Re: Pints and Politics.

Mr. Crouch's article appears to advocate for discussion that in my experience has been frowned upon in this website's discussion threads. He is clearly suggesting such discussions out in the real world, not here, but it does strike me as having a small bit of irony that if one was to begin such a thread in reaction to this article, it would likely be flagged/shut down by the site moderators.

The same reasoning Mr. Crouch uses to encourage "Respectful disagreement" in the pub could be applied to threads on this site. Disrespectful or disparaging discussion should be discouraged and I would not object to site mods policing such. However, if we accept Mr. Crouch's premise that reasonable political discussion can move us all towards a better future, why ban it outright here? I'll not bother repeating more of his article, just wanted to point out the apparent incongruity.

Cheers.

 

We pretend the community feeling is uniform, ignoring the homogeneous nature of our niche, which is largely populated by reasonably well-off white men. That reality, borne out by attendance at any beer event or in looking at the websites of almost any craft brewer or the Brewers Association itself, is self-evident and troubling.

--What is self evident?
--And why is it troubling?

But the insular nature of the craft brewing community is a weakness, not a strength.

--Why do you say that it is insular, much less a weakness?

The industry needs a boost of cultural agility
--Why do you say that? Aren't there like over 2000 breweries from all walks and regins of life in the USA alone?

This is certainly an inviting safe space—a warm, comforting cocoon. But it’s also not healthy in the long term. Exposure to new experiences, thoughts, and realities is healthy. Respectful disagreement and engagement are healthy. Ultimately, even dissent is healthy.
--Is this historically true though? Does BA have/had the reputation of more of a unilateral heavy handed moderation that found "disagreement, dissent etc. . ." as grounds for being eliminated for said disagreement/dissent?"

 

I like the overall tone and direction of the article. I agree with respectful disagreement as well as civility in discussion. Unfortunately respect and civility have obviously taken a backseat let alone an aftert

 

You nailed down exactly what I came here to comment about. While the Code of Conduct doesn't explicitly state it, there is a clause at the bottom that could be interpreted that political discussion is not tolerated.

Personally, I understand the need to discuss politics to develop a better understanding and at least interacting with various perspectives, but I fail to see how it relates specifically to beer or more importantly - this forum. After all, I found this forum to be a voice for better beer, and all that's associated with that - ingredients, brewing method, distribution, storage/cellaring, etc.

If you want to discuss politics at the pub, go right ahead. I won't stop you. I may move away from you though as I like going out for a beer to discuss life, camping, cars, and tell jokes. I'll debate politics in other situations. Not while I'm enjoying a $8 pour.

 

I think the implicit distinction in the piece (at least how I took it) was to encourage in person, face-to-face discussions about politics or more weighty matters rather than beer, brewing and the like. Online debates (political ones in particular) seem to readily deteriorate into unproductive name-calling-laden drivel. For whatever reason people are more comfortable writing awful things on a message board that they world never say to someone's face. ...literally read ANY comment section to bssicaly any news story. Having challenging discussions in person, I'd argue, is more civil and hopefully more productive.

 

I do agree that it implies more of real life instead of here, and that real life discussions do tend to be more lively and beneficial than online debates. I just find it a curious read after being in this community for at least a little while and seeing how folks react to political posts here (myself included).

I also find it interesting that we've now been encouraged to stop taking notes and converse with strangers - and discuss politics in that conversation. It's no easy subject to broach, particularly with complete strangers at the bar. Beer is such an easy conversation to open up and follow along with considering both sides have something to offer since they're both enjoying craft beer at a nice bar. It's kinda like discussing MLB games at a game you go to, or talking coffee origins when you're enjoying a fresh pour over, or talking running tactics, recent races, shoes etc when you're running with a new group. Not all folks are well informed enough to engage in a meaningful political discussion with vetted information (myself included), although perhaps that would change if we had more discussions. Or perhaps more folks would become misinformed and mislead.

 

I wonder if the women hanging out down at the salon wonder how they can attract more white men into their industry...or more importantly, if they find it "troubling"?

This stupid, imaginary self-guilt is exactly why Trump won.

 

Politics has become entirely too toxic in the past twenty-odd years. I for one am grateful that BA is a safe haven for me from all the poison on the internet.

 

Talking openly about politics now is more important then ever. Fascism is on the rise in the USA and Europe. They call themselves "Populist" to fool the gullible masses.
Progress doesn't happen on this planet when people always bite their tongues in fear when politics come up in a social situation.
Challenge the status quo when the status quo ain't working folks.
Like most parents teach their children at a early age- use your words.

 

In a better day people knew not to discuss religion or politics.

 

Nothing I enjoy more than drinking beers and talking politics with my friends and family. Usually around a campfire. With that said,religion and politics are usually best to keep out of conversations with strangers you meet out in public however. Usually doesn't end well.

I've sort of found that the nano/local brewery taproom demographics today (regardless of location) seem a little more homogenous than say a large regional or national brewery experiences from 10-20 years ago. Today also people tend to stay more in their small insular group converations where back at the brewery taprooms many years ago, there seemed to be alot more open conversation with lots of strangers and various types of people from all walks of life. Maybe I was just a more approachable person back then, who knows.

 

When exactly was this "better day" you speak of? I don't think a lack of discussion is going to make anything better. You might not want to engage with total strangers in those topics, but polite debate is a good thing for society.

 

a better day was when people knew not to discuss religion or politics with strangers. It was a common rule of etiquette.

 

I agree, why discuss politics and/or religion with someone you don't know . . . so we can become even more divided as a nation and society ? Forget that. I'm of the opinion that a healthy and mutually respectable relationship should already be firmly established before bringing up such potentially divisive subjects. Of course there are exceptions but I agree with your statement.

 

I'd like to hear your guy's thoughts regarding a brewery/pub taking a political stand. Perhaps by sponsoring a charity event that is clearly conservative, liberal or divisive...

 

I find my own political views sharply divided from much of the posted material from the breweries and brewers I admire. I have no interest in talking politics with beer geeks (or with anyone for that matter), but discussions on beer styles are certainly welcomed. Just like talking about beer with a politically like minded friend who drinks only Bud Light would be avoided. We will just agree to disagree.

 

That is a risky proposition for any business. You obviously risk pissing off about 50% of your customers. I just don't get it. There is a brewery in PA that I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole and I spread the word whenever I can.

 

It seems like even in-person (political) discussions today simply mimic the same "virtual" friends group we have on-line and in social media. I have to do better myself at mingling with others that I don't immediately know, and it's tough if you are a natural introvert, or you're tired of people who discuss points of view from ideology without any real evidence, data, or perspective. Few people actually want to learn these days...or they'll pretend they're interested, and then you see the veil drop over the eyes and nothing changes. But I think there is a need for in-person discussions on difficult subjects. We can't expect politicians to "do their elected job" if we cannot engage with each other as citizens.
Social media, mass media, and the various sources of information these days have also polluted any notion of what counts as actual and factual information. As an educator, it is pretty disheartening to also witness the decline of (mass) public education, to see the rise of magnet, charter, and voucher systems that bleed off people from overall schools. This simply reproduces the same echo chamber segmented population we now see forming among adults. I get it - "people want the best for their kids" - but if we are not putting the next generation together in a learning environment, then those same kids will learn differently about the same material.
Maybe it's safest to stick to coffee and tea when it comes to politics (or religion, or sex) these days. An interesting piece, however...

 

Agree, it is an interesting piece. I do believe in political/social/cultural/religious discourse but I believe the internet is the worst place to do so. I much prefer engaging with others in person. Even that is difficult because our current political/cultural/social climate is very heated and any disagreement tends to result in name calling instead of discussing the why and how of our disagreements. As a conservative Hispanic I have been called a coconut by other Hispanics, brown on the outside, white on the inside. Very unfortunate. Great post, cheers!