C02 tank sudden pressure loss. PRV?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by ghostinthemachine, Apr 24, 2017.

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  1. ghostinthemachine

    ghostinthemachine Initiate (0) Aug 14, 2015 Louisiana

    I brought my C02 tank to the LHBS saturday to get filled. It is a 9 month old 5# tank. After it got filled i put it in my back seat, parked in the shade while moving furniture for an hour, and then drove for an hour. When I got to my destination I opened my back door to discover that my back seat was an icicle. There was frost all over the floor mat and the tank was frozen over and empty. Would this be from the PRV valve? I've never tried it but can it leak CO2 from the outlet with no regulator hooked up? Stupid question but idk

    tia
     
  2. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    Barring a catastrophic failure, there are only three orifices that gas can leak from: master valve thread (where it mates to tank), master needle valve (the knob you turn), and prv. You'll probably have to fill it (partially) again to find the culprit. It absolutely can leak with no reg attached if some fool left the valve cracked open. But from your description (icicles) it sounds more like a prv failed and released gas very quickly. How hot was it parked in the shade?
     
    #2 PortLargo, Apr 24, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017
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  3. csurowiec

    csurowiec Initiate (0) Mar 7, 2010 Maryland

    Sounds like the prv crapped out to me. Icicles and frost would point toward a sudden complete loss of gas. Glad it didn't happen while you were driving.
     
  4. ghostinthemachine

    ghostinthemachine Initiate (0) Aug 14, 2015 Louisiana

    do i have to replace the valve ?
     
  5. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    I would just exchange it for another filled bottle (what I do with propane also when my bottle inspection is past due).
     
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  6. csurowiec

    csurowiec Initiate (0) Mar 7, 2010 Maryland

    I've never owned my own tank. I use it till it's empty then go to the welding supply store and swap it out for a fresh one of beverage grade CO2.
    I would take your tank to a local welding supply store and see if they can fix it.
    It's not a repair I would attempt because a full tank pressure is in the thousands of psi and doing something wrong might get dangerous.
     
  7. premierpro

    premierpro Savant (1,060) Mar 21, 2009 Michigan

    One time I had a CO2 tank fall over and opened the knob. luckily I did not have the tunes cranked and heard it!
     
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  8. mikehartigan

    mikehartigan Maven (1,421) Apr 9, 2007 Illinois

    Take it back to the guy who filled it and tell him what happened. He may try to make it right, particularly if it turns out to have been on oversight on his part - he missed a leaky thread, for example. That said, a LHBS probably has little control over that, so don't get your hopes too high.
     
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  9. epk

    epk Pundit (849) Jun 10, 2008 New Jersey

    This was my first thought. Sounds like something failed. Find an air supply company and swap it out. The one I use ONLY does swaps, not fills, though I'll occasionly use a liquor store that does fills.
     
  10. Jaguar10301

    Jaguar10301 Crusader (423) Mar 1, 2010 Maine

    I'm pretty sure I've never filled. Was a little sad to swap out my brand new tank but it works great and who cares what it really looks like...
     
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  11. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    Not necessarily . . . the prv is made to be replaced. If that is the problem it is relatively simple to remove/replace. Except prv's are not a mainstream item, usually sold in wholesale lots. If you have a fire extinguisher refill store nearby they will have some laying around. They should also have complete CGA-320 valves laying around. These guys wholesale for about 10 bucks and retail for 25'ish. Don't be afraid to buy a used valve.

    You didn't ask, but if you have a fire extinguisher shop around it would be a good time to upgrade to a 20 lb tank . . . you will save money. Most posters on this Forum advocate swapping-out tanks . . . I swing both ways, just depending on my mood and what's available.
     
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  12. mikehartigan

    mikehartigan Maven (1,421) Apr 9, 2007 Illinois

    Regarding 5 lb vs 20 lb tanks, one of the suppliers in my area charges the same price for both. Hard to justify 5 lbs in that case. Those who charge per lb are generally no more than a few dollars difference between 5 and 20 - still hard to justify the smaller tank. The major component of the price is 'setup', which is the same no matter what size tank they're filling. Even ignoring the price, 20 lbs is just so much more convenient than 5. I get mine filled once every 2 to 2 1/2 years. It would be more like every 5 to 6 months with a 5 lb tank. I keep a spare on hand - also 20 lbs - so I'm virtually never out of gas.
     
  13. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Life is too short...OP: give up your shiny new tank and exchange it for something ugly :slight_smile:
     
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  14. epk

    epk Pundit (849) Jun 10, 2008 New Jersey

    Suppose this answers why when I took a 5 lb tank to swap out, and all they had was 20 lb tanks left, they just gave me the 20 lb tank for the same price.
     
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  15. ghostinthemachine

    ghostinthemachine Initiate (0) Aug 14, 2015 Louisiana

    It's the PRV for sure. Hooked it up to refill and it was bleeding from it. I called AirGas and they said an exchange is 31 bucks for a 5# tank. Is this the normal price? I usually get it filled for 9 or 10 bucks.
     
  16. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    [​IMG]
     
  17. mikehartigan

    mikehartigan Maven (1,421) Apr 9, 2007 Illinois

    Prices are all over the map around here, so it's hard to say what is 'normal', though $31 does seem to be pushing it on the high side for 5#. Does the guy who fills it for 9 or 10 bucks also do swaps?
     
  18. mikehartigan

    mikehartigan Maven (1,421) Apr 9, 2007 Illinois

    Not to go off on a tangent, but this thread illustrates one of the few downsides to a bigger tank. If you have a 5 lb tank, the limit of your loss to a leak is 5 lbs of gas while, with a 20 lb tank, it's 4x that amount. Long term, though, you're still economically way ahead with a bigger tank, since you will have learned your lesson on the first leak ...presumably.
     
  19. Jaguar10301

    Jaguar10301 Crusader (423) Mar 1, 2010 Maine

    If what I am hearing is true though filling or swapping a 5 versus 20 lb tank is negligible so its not 4X the loss.
     
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  20. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    Accountant or Engineer or both? Maybe more icicles is the only downside . . . and in Florida that'd be refreshing:
    [​IMG]
     
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