Bad Trader Rlgrigorian (resolved)

You love to disagree, it's one of your most endearing qualities.

I was not suggesting they delete the feedback they gave each other, but to cancel the trade--the physical, tactile, time-consuming effort of replacing of the bottles he lost, packing them up and incurring the cost of sending them again to a region where he can't be sure the box will actually be delivered, to a person he can't be sure will even send him what he's owed--and get back to their lives.

In the meantime, for sure leave the feedback. And this BT post will also remain. All of it is very relevant information.

 

Agree!

 

It could be argued that OP is more of a bad trader than person he called out.

 

Maybe another case of Double Dry Hopped DNT

 

When you look at Rlgrigorian's feedback from April 22nd you see the situation sort of reversed. There was obviously a shipping issue, but, instead of seeking compensation for the lost box or cancelling, they sent another box. That doesn't really sound like bad trader behavior to me, and I can imagine being irked by someone acting counter that behavior immediately after you obviously did the right thing by one of your trade partners in basically the same circumstance.

 

A few people are jumping on this point, and I think they're misunderstanding. OP did not want the incoming (never shipped) box AND $25, he only asked for splitting the lost cost because the other trader @Rlgrigorian did not ship his box for a week, which looks like a neutral or bad trader move, and it looked like OP was getting hosed. Maybe it was a four day storm, and he was planning to ship on that following Monday, but that should've been communicated. If @Rlgrigorian had shipped or communicated he was waiting a week, it sounds like OP wouldn't have asked that and would've started making a replacement box. So while not good form, the situation's context lets us see why @Gotti311 asked for $25.

On top of that, and this is crucial, @Rlgrigorian without a doubt screwed up by not including that Fedex warning in the message that contained his address on Friday, the day before OP shipped. He absolutely should make that warning a standard part of sending his address on for beer trading at all times. Or even prior, so people can make an informed decision about whether to trade with him/any VT trader (product of their shipping co hubs, not the mostly good traders-- I have heard both Fedex and UPS in VT are "tough.")

Things can happen to boxes, but there's a huge difference between losing 1 out of 100 and 50 out of 100! Yes, it is on the sender for the box to arrive safely, pending extenuating circumstances. But it's certainly a bad move on the recipient not to tell the sender, "Hey don't use this company that gives your box a 50/50 chance (or worse) of making it safely." Or I suppose everyone here would be cool with someone (who knows not to use a certain company) not telling each of you to ship with a certain company til after you ship? Potential Bye Bye shipper with the latest Black Gold or FO batch, from an easily avoidable thing that is not the shipper's fault and completely comes from the recipient's carelessness. Maybe you even lose two boxes before you get that crucial info.

Someone will reply with "What are extenuating circumstances?" or "No such thing as extenuating circumstances." So IMO here's a short, non-encompassing, sample list:
Not Extenuating: cold weather, bad label, bottle breaks and box is sent back or trashed, delivery truck fire. These are things we should all know as risks and have seen 1st or 3rd person, the off-chance crap happens things. I know people have waited months to ship for non-freezing weather before, because it's on the sender.
Extenuating (assuming sender followed agreed ship info and date): Recipient's roommate/SO (can put box inside for recipient) opening the box and drinking or damaging bottles, Recipient having box held at a Fedex store and not claiming it in 5 days, recipient providing incorrect or incomplete delivery address, recipient agreeing to shipping date that coincides with box arriving when they are already planning to go out of town. Generally, the recipient being really dumb.
Debatable: Recipient changing the delivery address during shipment, recipient having someone grab the box for them (without access to putting it inside, like a co-worker) and that person damages or drinks the beer, recipient providing incorrect or incomplete delivery info. Which is where we find ourselves.

That's IMO, so I welcome people civilly discussing this. I encourage people to think for a minute how they'd feel if the recipient did something dumb and avoidable and your box contents didn't make it to their fridge safely. And how if you were the dumb recipient, you'd feel bad for being partially or fully at fault for screwing your sender.

 

There are two points I feel are misunderstood here.

1. Agree to ship on Monday. Every time I trade with someone we set up a ship by date. It's obviously fluid as life gets in the way sometimes but I'd be more than thrilled if someone dropped off a box a day or two early.

2. Not telling the shipper (@Gotti311 ) Not to use FedEx because of a high risk of unrecoverable boxes. That is absolute bullshit! You had better believe that if I were in the same position with FedEx as @Rlgrigorian i would absolutely inform my partner upon initial agreement of the trade and I would make sure to remind him a few times before the shipping date.

Obviously there are always two sides involved. It just seems that one set the other up for failure wether it was intentional or not. Guy ships one or two days early and then gets a message that he shouldn't have used FedEx (really?). And if @Gotti311 wasnt informed of he FedEx issue two days before the shipping deadline, then when was he going to be informed? Then @Rlgrigorian agreed to ship on Monday doesnt (probably because he knows the box will be lost).

I really hope I'm reading the situation wrong here....

 

We did agree to ship monday, and when I found out that my box had a good chance of not making it I asked what he would like to do. I could ship but most likely he was going to need to ship another box. He said he didn't want to ship another box so I waited in hopes it would make it thru, but fedex is notoriously bad in vermont. I should've mentioned it first thing, but most of the time I wait till a trade is confirmed to say ups please.

 

I was assuming Monday shipping. I said this on Sunday, but sure I could've said it sooner. I was always under the impression it's shippers responsibility. I have sent second boxes over frozen shipments because I assume responsibility.

 

I offered shipping a box out but he didn't want to send another box, so I was at the option of sending him money for a box that never came or sending a box and never getting anything in return

 

Thanks for coming in and replying.
As my post gets at, some things are established to be shipper issues, like cold weather. Others are a grey area.

Now this gets interesting, because it sounds like @Gotti311 was expecting you to ship the whole week before the box was lost. But from you it sounds you offered to ship and he said no because then he'd have to send a second box.
What was the communication between 3/10 and 3/18? When did you offer to ship a box out? On 3/11 or 3/18 (or other)?

 

You really should have told him right away. You say you wait until trade is confirmed, but you should have told him at same time you gave him your address.

This doesn't make you a bad trader but this is part of the reason this thread exists.

Also, once you told OP about this, wondering why he didn't have the box rerouted back.

 

I am confused, did you want to send another box?

 

I am happy to send you a box and you send me one too? But last I checked you didn't want that, you just want me to paypal you.

 

Happy to do this trade over again, and I think because of this post I found someone else to do it.

 

Great, so you're set, cheers

 

I think he tried to have it rerouted, and I agree I should have told him earlier, I kicked myself for not thinking of it right away. Sometimes Fedex works and sometimes it doesn't