Tanal A from wyeast

I really like 1469 as we've discussed in the past. I enjoy it in my IPAs as the peach/apricot boosts the hops, it reduces the IBU assault, and gives a fuller mouthfeel. That's why I chose it for the NE IPA. The beer is really good, just starting to clear.

 

Are you perceiving any sensory changes from the clearing? Do you think this beer 'tastes' different due to the clearing effect?

Cheers!

 

There is a table on page 178, that lists the level in 10P wort brewed with DI water, discussion is on 177.

 

Yup. It tasted a little phenolic when it was young. Less so now. I was concerned that I had some Brett at work after doing all 100% Brett for the past 2 years. I had also done 3724/3711 combo on the Saison batch prior to this one. I think it was more do to particulates and possibly using too many hops in the fermenter.

 

How would you compare and contrast the mouthfeel of the young beer vs. the one month old beer?

Cheers!

 

I'll get back to you on that. I plan to do an official tasting tonight for the blog.

 

I don't know of any yeast nutrients to which the manufacturer adds a measured amount of copper. But my guess would be that the White Labs/Danstar Servomyces nutrient does contain copper, because it's dead yeast cells, which presumably contain some copper (since they need/use it).

But since yeast do need copper (in trace amounts), I figure my immersion chiller provides it and call it a day. (I also use Wyeast nutrient, mainly for the zinc it contains.)

 

Proper brewing techniques may be defined by the prevailing practices of an era, but they evolve. I love the simple ways, bit I am also fascinated that there are chemists putting a lot of thought into this stuff.

 

Progress simply for progress sake is something I don't understand, but then again I am pretty old fashioned. If you can brew the beer and achieve the look you want, why add crap to it? There's no art and no skill to brewing when you can half ass all the other steps, but by adding some tablet or powder still turn out a hazy beer. It's a romantic view of brewing, I know, but I still see more value in attention to detail, discipline through process, and knowledge of techniques and ingredients than I see in simply adding a chemical. I'm ranting, but I hope my perspective comes through a bit.

 

The Water Book, not How to Brew.

 

Hey, I have had people say the same about adjusting water. Why put those chemicals in your beer?

 

Jeff, I did find the information you pointed out in the John Palmer Water book.

I replied to you with details but my message got deleted at the request of @minderbender.

My apologies for the confusion here.

Cheers!

Jack

 

That is even more confusing.

 

Apparently 'life' on BA is an 'adventure'!?!

Cheers!

 

Jack linked to a pirated copy of Water, I objected, and ultimately all of the related posts were removed.

In one of the removed posts, Jack made a point about the contribution of malts to the mineral content of the beer, following up on @hopfenunmaltz's suggestion from earlier in the thread. On p. 178 of Water, the authors report that 10°Plato wort made with distilled water has been observed to contain 0.15 mg/l of copper and 0.11 mg/l of iron, while the fermented beer was observed to contain 0.12 mg/l of copper and 0.07 mg/l of iron. Presumably this means that the yeast removed some, but not all, of the metal contributed by the malt. (These numbers were ultimately derived from Priest and Stewart, Handbook of Brewing, 2nd Ed., Chapter 4-Water, D.G. Taylor, CRC Press, 2006.)

The important point here is that these metals were observed in beer brewed with distilled water, which means they can be contributed by the malt and not just the brewing water. Copper and iron have been accused of promoting staling, and so this may bear on the usefulness of BrewTan-B for brewers who use distilled or RO water. (But I make no such claim, I'm just reporting what Water says.)

I hope this clears up the confusion.

 

To a degree I share your perspective, i.e., the romantic notion of beer as a craft. I am not a craftsman in the traditional sense of doing something like wood working or metal working, a tradition passed on by our ancestors. Brewing helps fill that void for me. It is a seemingly simple art to perfect a beer style like brewers of the past.

But those brewers of the past are the same people who figured out that seaweed, gelatin, and fish bladders clears beer. They figured out how to isolate yeast into separate strains, and how to treat their water with salts to make it easier to perfect other styles. Today’s brewing chemists and microbiologists still work on innovations for making better beer easier. We all get to choose to embrace them or not. Collectively, gradually, some innovations will gain acceptance and change the craft.

One of the analogies running through my head when I first posted was that old picobrew thread. Some of us (including me) cried bloody murder when that first came out -- a push button, automated system was not homebrewing, we said. However, these types of systems have gained some acceptance in the past few years. Is it as romantic as firing up a hot rock and dropping it in a wooden vat of wort? But the steinbrewers of the past did eventually evolve to use a 3-tiered, all stainless, propane fired system.

 

Got it.

The metal ions act as catalysts in the re-dox staling reactions. The interested homebrewer can read up on Fenton's reactions.

 

See, that's the thing, I am a tradesman, a craftsman, and an artist outside of beer and brewing. But I try to equate my beer to my food in that I disagree with random chemicals and science being applied to that area of my life as well. Why use chemicals that may cause harm to brew beer? Or make cheese? Or grow tomatoes? Since FDA approval doesn't take long, 24 mos, I don't see how these chemicals can be verified as something "safe" to put in my beer. Have long time toxicity levels been measured across several years of consuming this product? These are all questions I ask myself about a product before using it. Risk vs reward in this situation just isn't balanced enough to use for me.

 

Fair enough. My own perspective evolved from a career studying chemistry and the environment. There is something to your position that resonates with me, but I have had cause to grow skeptical of some positions that resonated with me. I remain open minded on this particular issue. I think I have a sense for what this chemical is probably all about, but perhaps I need to educate myself more rather than rely on my gut instincts

 

You and I both.